Skywalker's Armory

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Dominum
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Re: 3 Scars

Post by Dominum » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:18 pm

I use Madbull .40s in anything over 500FPSw/.20, and plenty of people can tell you how well they worked in both my G3SG1 DMR and my M16 DMR setups.
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Re: 3 Scars

Post by theboss62 » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:22 pm

the only thing I hate about madbull BBs is the color! why'd they do that with their heavy bbs :'(
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Re: 3 Scars

Post by wesley810 » Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:56 am

I use washed MadBull .40's in all my sniper rifles. The tan color actually doesn't bother me too much. Never used their green .36 or black .43, but I'd guess they would be very hard to see and probably greatly annoy me.

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Re: 3 Scars

Post by Skywalker » Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:24 pm

everything i've seen about the .40s or the .43s is that you really have to be closing in on 600fps with a .20 to really get your money's worth from them.
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Re: 3 Scars

Post by Dominum » Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:27 pm

Not in my opinion, I saw better performance in my DMRs, both of which were ~530 FPS with a .20. At 250ft it was dead on, and punched through brush, wind, and water much better. Generally better lateral stability, you just had to account for elevation at 250+ ft. Stephen was my spotter for a few games with them, and he can confirm their excellent performance. Hell, just ask the poor guys at that TT game that couldn't leave the tower for an hour and a half LOL!
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Re: 3 Scars

Post by Star_folder » Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:30 pm

Do you wash them like I've heard suggested so many times?
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Re: 3 Scars

Post by Dominum » Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:47 pm

I have never washed a BB.
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Re: 3 Scars

Post by D.Smitty » Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:15 pm

Star_folder wrote: Do you wash them like I've heard suggested so many times?
I MIGHT wash crossmans, Matrix, and other really cheap brands of bbs, if only to make sure that no crap was left on them from poor QC.

Better quality brands of bbs, such as madbull, KSC, Tokyo Marui, and Maruzen (just to name a few) have such low tolerance and high quality control that I don't see a need to wash them.  Some say that soaps and cleaners tend to slowly dissolve the bbs over time, which would lead to a drop in quality.  I cannot be certain about that, though.
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Re: 3 Scars

Post by Skywalker » Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:57 pm

the fly time is another thing to consider. I know people don't talk about that much, but the difference in fps between shooting a .30 and a .40 is pretty significant.
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Re: 3 Scars

Post by D.Smitty » Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:10 pm

vipersniper9 wrote: the fly time is another thing to consider. I know people don't talk about that much, but the difference in fps between shooting a .30 and a .40 is pretty significant.
Let me reference the thread I just wrote on this:
http://www.southcarolinaairsoft.com/forums/index.php?topic=4155.msg42042#new

The difference between a 0.20 and a 0.40 is about 175 fps.  between a .30 and a .40 is about 60-65 fps.

With a good quality hopup bucking, the advantages of being able to penetrate brush and wind at range and being able to deliver greater kinetic energy to your target on impact make a strong argument for heavier bbs on sniper and DM platforms.

It's really a matter of personal preference.  Most players agree that accuracy becomes the most important thing at longer ranges.  0.20s and 0.12 will go longer than heavier weights, sure.  But you can also be pretty sure that you will have no idea exactly where they will hit at ranges past 150 ft (unless you have a perfect line of sight, no wind, etc.).
Last edited by D.Smitty on Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 3 Scars

Post by Skywalker » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:42 am

am i the only one who got rick rolled by that... lol

yeah, you're right, after 150-175 feet with a .20, its hard to say where its going to go.

what i mean is more, the amount of time it takes the BB to get to the target... doesn't matter how accurate it is; if it takes 2 seconds for the BB to arrive, thats alot of time for the target to move, and if he does, you don't have a kill. Sure, if you're undetected it works great. but you can only stay undetected for a couple shots. And with the darker harder to see BBs it isn't as much of an issue because they can't see anything to dodge or duck back behind cover. But at 150+ feet its pretty easy to dodge white airsoft BBs, even coming out of a 500+fps gun.

I say in a bolt action, the heavier BBs make more sense, because you are so heavily relying on that one shot to begin with. With a semi auto DMR style gun, where you tend to still get involved in firefights, you really need the BB to be able to get there in that split second that somebody isn't in cover.
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Re: 3 Scars

Post by D.Smitty » Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:17 am

vipersniper9 wrote: am i the only one who got rick rolled by that... lol

yeah, you're right, after 150-175 feet with a .20, its hard to say where its going to go.

what i mean is more, the amount of time it takes the BB to get to the target... doesn't matter how accurate it is; if it takes 2 seconds for the BB to arrive, thats alot of time for the target to move, and if he does, you don't have a kill. Sure, if you're undetected it works great. but you can only stay undetected for a couple shots. And with the darker harder to see BBs it isn't as much of an issue because they can't see anything to dodge or duck back behind cover. But at 150+ feet its pretty easy to dodge white airsoft BBs, even coming out of a 500+fps gun.

I say in a bolt action, the heavier BBs make more sense, because you are so heavily relying on that one shot to begin with. With a semi auto DMR style gun, where you tend to still get involved in firefights, you really need the BB to be able to get there in that split second that somebody isn't in cover.
According to what I've found, for a 550 fps DMR, a 0.40 g bb (which leaves at ~388 fps ) actually travels about 129 ft in 0.5 seconds, while a 0.20 g bb travels about 116 ft in the same amount of time.  So really, there is no real difference in the amount of time your target has to move out of the way. It takes about 0.3-0.35 seconds to get to 100 feet for both weights with that DMR.

The air just stops the bbs so fast because they are so light.  It would be very different if they were bullet-shaped or made of metal (and therefore much more dense), but plastic spheres just don't punch through air all that well.
Last edited by D.Smitty on Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 3 Scars

Post by Skywalker » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:26 am

Well... no offense but thats just not true. An object twice the weight is not going to go further faster, even with the air resistance. But yeah, there is only so far you can throw a 6mm plastic BB through the air.

I have done tests in high wind and believe it or not, I've seen .20s fly further straighter than .25s. I know that goes against everything that people say, but in my case, the fact that the .25s were moving slower= they had more time to be effected by the wind, and were blown further off course.

I'm 100% serious: same target same gun 2 mags with the different BBs (same brand BBs). And the .20s went straighter. I thought I had mixed the mags up but no.
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Re: 3 Scars

Post by Star_folder » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:56 pm

Everything I have ever tested, would prove the exact opposite. I once got a .20 mag mixed up with a .25 mag, and the .20 bbs where flying everywhere, sure, every once and a while, one would go straight, but i might as well be shooting blind folded trying to hit my target.
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Re: 3 Scars

Post by D.Smitty » Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:23 pm

vipersniper9 wrote: Well... no offense but thats just not true. An object twice the weight is not going to go further faster, even with the air resistance. But yeah, there is only so far you can throw a 6mm plastic BB through the air.

I have done tests in high wind and believe it or not, I've seen .20s fly further straighter than .25s. I know that goes against everything that people say, but in my case, the fact that the .25s were moving slower= they had more time to be effected by the wind, and were blown further off course.

I'm 100% serious: same target same gun 2 mags with the different BBs (same brand BBs). And the .20s went straighter. I thought I had mixed the mags up but no.
I know that you are 100% serious, and I take no offense.  The question is a complicated one.  Compounded by many many factors.  The equations I applied to back up what I said make implicit assumptions which may not be true.  I will investigate this further when I have the chance.

I've run some numbers for comparison to add credit to my argument:  Using the same equations that accurately predict the terminal velocity of skydivers, I have found that the terminal velocity for a 0.20 g airsoft bb is ~50 FPS. Terminal Velocity for a 0.30 g bb is ~62 FPS, and terminal velocity for a 0.40 g bb is ~72 FPS.

The power of air resistance increases with the square of an object's velocity, meaning that a 50 MPH wind will push you TWENTY FIVE times stronger than a 10 MPH wind. 

Getting back to your point, I understand your statement that heavier bbs are traveling slower than lighter bbs, AT FIRST.

My point was that it takes about 1/3 of a second for air resistance to slow the lighter bb down so much that it is only going as fast as it's heavier cousin fired from the same gun at the same time.

Real testing is ALWAYS better than theory, as the universe really does have the final say on what is actually going on, but the only way for anybody to refute what I am saying is to actually fire a bb through multiple chronos ON THE SAME SHOT to see what the velocity of the bb is at range.  i.e. putting a chrono at the gun, 20 ft away, 40 ft away, etc.

I don't have enough chronos to do this, but I would really love to do it.
Last edited by D.Smitty on Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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