Wanted: Your Opinion

All topics related to milsim and realmil discussions should be here.

Check any that apply to you:

I would almost definitely attend
22
20%
I may or may not attend
11
10%
I would probably not attend
3
3%
If I did attend, I would almost definitely play through the entire game
23
21%
If I did attend, I may or may not play through the entire game
13
12%
If I did attend, I would not play through the entire game
11
10%
Do this!
19
17%
It sounds cool, but don't waste time because it won't work out well
8
7%
 
Total votes: 110

Dominum
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Wanted: Your Opinion

Post by Dominum » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:03 pm

I am very seriously considering running an immersive ~48 hour MilSim game this Spring. I'd like to lay out some of the details involved, and ask some questions of the general public as to your opinion.

Game details would include:
-NON STOP play from ~noon Saturday until ~noon Monday (actual times TBD, but this is close), probably on a weekend with a Monday holiday
-Date, times and details would be announced well in advance for planning
-Just like the OP 24 scenarios in that you will eat, sleep, rest, reload, and crap on the field of play. Non stop immersion means just that.
-Very MilSim ruleset (limited medics, limited support gunners, limited DMs, limited Snipers, assigned comms, detailed and mandatory command structure, medic cards, strings or tape (a physical item of some kind), Mid/low/realcaps in everything except assigned support guns, various combat vehicles and anti armor use, highly detailed scenario and objectives, capturable medic stations, special missions to be passed out by the CO that grant special rewards but are difficult and time consuming to complete and limited to a small number of men, etc.
-I will design and admin the entire scenario with a handpicked staff
-I will probably be able to get a HMMWV that we can shoot into and out of again for this game (but no vehicles at night of course)
-Full auto possibly allowed at night
-Lower density of objectives at night so that commanders can properly cycle out players for sleep shifts
-Promoted in GA, NC, and TN with the hopes of attracting many out of state players to join us
-Played on a large field with plenty of room for maneuver
-Ages 16 and up ONLY, unless part of a father and son team

Pros- Serious MilSim and heavy immersion for a low cost ($20-$30 or so, as low as I can keep it), one of the longest and most immersive airsoft games in this part of the country, it may draw lots of out of state players, plenty of interesting and challenging objectives for everyone, in addition to your standard attrition related objectives.

Possible Cons that I want to avoid as much as possible- Low turnout due to the length of the game (many people may not desire to spend that much time uninterrupted playing airsoft), low turnout due to the strictness of the rules (some players can't attend games of this duration, or may not find the ruleset to their liking, this game would certainly not be for everyone), high early departure rate (many people may think they are up to the task but tire out and leave) leading to a fizzling end.

Now, I want to get your opinion. I would really like to do this, but not if it will mean only 40 people show up and half of them leave halfway through the game. I am a realist, I know at least some people will leave during the game, and I would be OK if we had a turnout of say 120+ and only 80+ made it until the very end of the game. Who thinks this is a good idea, that this should be done, and that it will work? Who thinks this is a bad idea, that time aught not to be wasted trying it, and that it will not work as planned? Please state your opinion, and just as importantly, why you hold it.
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Re: Wanted: Your Opinion

Post by SteevoLS » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:44 pm

I would NOT expect any serious turnout at this type of event. Operation East Wind had something along the lines of 80 players last year, and that is a heavily advertised niche event with lots of cool toys to be had by anyone who attends. Admittedly that is a whole week as opposed to 48 hours, but it still bears mentioning. I would expect a turnout of 30-50. Almost none of the SC playerbase's parents would let them stay out that late! Look at Op24; almost nobody plays through the night, and this has happened every single time. Come to think of it, almost nobody plays in night games at any game that I've attended and the attendance on the second day drops dramatically.
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Re: Wanted: Your Opinion

Post by atl » Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:47 pm

It does sound really cool I and I would attend If it was up to me but there's one problem, my parents. I think they would have a problem dropping me off saturday then picking me up monday as I survive with little sleep in the field for 2 days. Also a lot of jobs don't get public holidays off so that would be problem for a lot of workers.

edit they might let me go they've let me do similar things minus the fighting with the boy scouts so don't count me out just yet
Last edited by atl on Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wanted: Your Opinion

Post by marpat96 » Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:10 am

I'd go to this, 100% I would play through the entire event. I long for a game where you take EVERYTHING in the field with you, no coming back, and you must survive on what you have. I support this game, and would love for it to be put on, I can see it being a lot of fun, I've always wanted to try out MilSim, and am going to Lionclaws (any game) soon before my senior year.

Note to SteevoLS: The night games in GA are always usually packed, OP Venom at Battlezone in Bowman had 75 players in the day, 70ish played at night. As for OP SOCO in Bowman (Airdog game) mainly all the players came out for that one as well, the only time I remember the night play being low is OP Frostbite in Bowman (extreme cold, like 12 degrees Farenheit) and Steel Grifin Convoy (what was up with that?) It really depends on how much the night play is promoted really.

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Re: Wanted: Your Opinion

Post by Romba » Sat Sep 01, 2012 5:46 am

atl wrote:It does sound really cool I and I would attend If it was up to me but there's one problem, my parents. I think they would have a problem dropping me off saturday then picking me up monday as I survive with little sleep in the field for 2 days. Also a lot of jobs don't get public holidays off so that would be problem for a lot of workers.
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Re: Wanted: Your Opinion

Post by jsts ghost » Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:15 pm

Yes this would sound great on paper, and for many it would be a blast. However your body after 48 hours of adreniline with moments of crashs will cause the following week to have a hard time to recover. Your body will be able to have a 24-30 hours of normal movement with little more than a good night sleep to recover. But do the same time period with adreniline rushs, it will crash you hard. I know. The longest that most bodies can go with out solid sleep, under combat conditions, is 22 hours. Then you have to take a stim to keep up any longer.
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Re: Wanted: Your Opinion

Post by slimshady222 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:49 am

Id go but im halfway across the world right know and another thing is many support guns only have full auto capabilitys what would happen there.
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Re: Wanted: Your Opinion

Post by Dominum » Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:57 pm

jsts ghost wrote:Yes this would sound great on paper, and for many it would be a blast. However your body after 48 hours of adreniline with moments of crashs will cause the following week to have a hard time to recover. Your body will be able to have a 24-30 hours of normal movement with little more than a good night sleep to recover. But do the same time period with adreniline rushs, it will crash you hard. I know. The longest that most bodies can go with out solid sleep, under combat conditions, is 22 hours. Then you have to take a stim to keep up any longer.
You seem to think people are supossed to be in firefights for 48 hours straight? Maybe you didn't notice:
Dominum wrote:-Just like the OP 24 scenarios in that you will eat, sleep, rest, reload, and crap on the field of play. Non stop immersion means just that.
-Lower density of objectives at night so that commanders can properly cycle out players for sleep shifts
Thanks for all the input so far guys, keep it coming.

I do agree that no more than 50 players from SC would likely be able to attend, but I am hoping a large out of state attendance would help. Anyone from out of state want to weigh in?
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Re: Wanted: Your Opinion

Post by atl » Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:28 pm

If you did have one of these things I think you would have to have it at a smaller field. If you had it at airfarm it would just be too big for the amount of people if you had it at welford of select fields at redfox it would probably work better.
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Re: Wanted: Your Opinion

Post by Gerbilizer » Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:44 pm

Make it at Blue Hole.
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Re: Wanted: Your Opinion

Post by Doublewolf » Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:23 pm

It sounds like a great idea, but I don't know how well it would work--many of the players in SC are young. Kids' parents aren't going to want to spend the night. Some of the younger players aren't the best at following commands, either. There are probably enough experienced players to have a fun game on a smaller field. You may want to age restrict the game to 15+. I wouldn't do adults only (I may be a bit biased, I'm 17.) just because there are some younger guys who have the experience to participate in a milsim event, and their participation will add to the experience.

Radios would be a must--there's no way to follow orders if you don't know what they are.

I like the idea of the Medic cards. The idea worked well at OP:24 II even though it would've been nice if there were fewer KIA cards in that deck. The rules need to be explained well--both game specific and general rules. At 24 II, everyone was complaining that the KIA cards were useless, but they were forgetting that you'd normally have a 3 minute bleed out time, and the card took that bleed out time away. Most people weren't waiting the full 3 minutes either because they didn't read the rules or because they were just disregarding them.

The game would definitely require a lot of pre-planning. If you're going to limit snipers and automatic riflemen, the COs would have to decide who is going to have those roles ahead of time. The limits should obviously not be based on the shape of one's weapon, but on the velocity of the projectile for sniper rifles and the ammunition capacity for ARs.

You may not want to divide the teams based on camo, either.

Just my two cents.

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Re: Wanted: Your Opinion

Post by Dominum » Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:19 pm

As far as support guns go, I may or may not allow full auto at night. This is up for debate. If it was not allowed, then just like at all of our previous night games support gunners would have to switch to something else for the nights.

I like the age limit, added.

I sent some PMs to a few of the respected out of state players that I know, and have asked them to weigh in on it.

It would take place at a large field, stalemate and boredom would ensue if it were at a small field. There has to be room for maneuver and lots of short term AND long term objectives. It would probably be at the Airfarm in Newberry, Blue Hole in Aiken, or Redfox (combined fields) in Spartanburg. (venues listed in order of highest likelihood)

Further input appreciated.
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Re: Wanted: Your Opinion

Post by fallout11 » Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:50 pm

Hi Dom, thanks for the compliment! I have to be somewhat honest, in all likelihood Steevols is correct, turnout will be fairly light. That would not necessarily be considered a failure, however. I've been to several East Winds (II, III, and V) and a couple of Mashers now, both of which basically required you to live in the field for 2 or more days and "run what ya' brung", and both had turnout that, at the best of times, hit 50 people. All were considered successes by those who attended.
There was a time when this would have sounded like the best thing ever and I would have creamed my pants to attend. Unfortunately at the same time I would have been utterly unable to do so, as I would have still been too young, broke, lacked the ability to attend, or be otherwise similarly restricted. Today I and my guys see airsoft more as a social outing than a serious give it all you've got experience, and honestly that likely shows. The draw for Masher and EW, at least for us, was not the length of the event, but the historical "let's pretend we were there" component, a suspension of disbelief, something that a similar event in a modern setting would quite honestly lack for me/us without everyone in period uniforms, gear, etc.
In short, yes, you will get some interest and possibly some attendance from Georgia and likely other nearby states, and possibly even myself depending on location, time of year, weather, and personal finances at the time. Flip side, most simply won't be able to attend, with work, school, parents, college, or what not being an insurmountable hurdle for many. Finally, the greatest risk you will have to face is that it will turn into an "unfun" endurance-fest before it is over.
Your cost is super-reasonable, almost too much so. Perhaps add some hot chow (even if only 1 meal) for the extra cost. An age limit, likely 16+, seems appropriate (EW is 18+, Masher was 16+). Big ups on most of what you suggest as components, i.e. medic cards, midcaps only, etc. Unlike some others, as this is meant to be a fully immersive Milsim I would suggest the BIGGEST field you can get your hands on, it is not possible to maintain a continuous-action operational tempo with airsofters for 48 hours straight, you need room to maneuver, flank, and scout, to sneak about and perform missions with (hopefully) minimal enemy contact, to have reasonably secure (and hidden from the enemy) bases to operate out of, run C^3 out of, rest, etc.
Pick a date far enough out (say 3-5 months from now) and a field and I will be happy to spread the word and canvas for players over this way. If the interest is just not there 2 months out, you will know and can cancel/postpone/etc.

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Re: Wanted: Your Opinion

Post by jakger » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:48 pm

whats this age limit about
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Re: Wanted: Your Opinion

Post by Dominum » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:52 pm

Could you elaborate on what exactly it is you are asking? I'm not sure what the question is.
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