A dilemma

[VoidSuicide]

Alright, so I plan to do a sniper build eventually, But I've hit a dilemma, that being that I cant decide on the base weapon. Right now i have it down to two platforms, so I'll list all my reasons for each one.

M16/M4: I really love the sleek newish styling on these models. If i did this model, I would plan to put a long ris on it but leave the barrel the original length. Then I would put a silencer on it to bring it out past the end of the ris. I would most likely have a bipod, a laser, a peq box, front grip, and maybe a flashlight, as well as using some sort of scope. This I believe would be the more expensive of the two platforms, due to the amount of cosmetic stuff i have planned for it in addition to the sniper mods/upgrades. However, it would probably be easier for me since i've already had two m16/m4 gearboxes apart with no problems.

M14: and I don't mean the newer ebr styles, I like the old school ones. If I did this model, then I doubt I would be doing any cosmetic changes, mostly be because I dont know of anything other then a rail system that wouldn't turn it into an ebr. As mentioned tho, I would at least get a rail system for it though for the purpose of mounting a laser, some sort of scope, and a bipod. I would probably also change/remove the front sight/gas block and put a suppressor on it.

Either way, I would be doing the same internal work, stronger parts and such to get it around 575 with a .25 and as quiet as possible. If I do the m16 base, I figured on starting with a KWA, but i have no idea what would be decent for an m14. So I would appreciate as much info as i can get about both models and anything else that would pertain to this build with either of these guns. Pro, cons, parts that do or don't exist, ect.

[Star_folder]

M16/M4:
They are great platforms simply because there are so many aftermarket parts available for them. If something breaks, you have a store load of parts that you can pick from to replace the broken bit. That being said, While KWAs are great stock, once you start to upgrade them, they start to fall apart. They aren't quite speced like everything else is, and thus the dimensions are off ever so slightly. This will cause problems down the road, and isn't worth it, imo. If you want to start with a good base, consider a JG/Echo1, G&G, or G&P. It just depends on your budge as to which one you get. But to push a gun that far, you will need to replace most everything in the gun itself. Personally, I love G&G, and would pick them out of the batch.

M14:
Not as upgradeable as the M4, but there are still a good many parts available for it if something breaks. The only problem I see with an M14 is that they are somewhat more difficult to disassemble than an M4, and the gearbox is harder to work on than a V2. However, many people claim that the V7 gearbox found in M14s is stronger than V2 gearboxes. CYMA, G&G, CA, TM all make good M14s, however, again, I suggest the G&G, as it takes more standard parts (uses V2 gears), and seems to be built better than the other M14 gearboxes I've had the experience to work on.

[SteevoLS]

If you are going to do a high FPS (read: M140+) V2 gearbox build, you'll need an AJAX STS for long term durability. I wouldn't bother with a flashlight or laser, as those are really just extra bulk on your rails that don't accomplish much for a gun with a 100' MED.

If you're going to start with a Armalite as your base, a VFC or G&P would be ideal. All you would have to do is drop in some high torque gears, a metal tooth piston (or very strong polycarb), high torque motor, M160, AJAX STS, and wait for something to break.

Alternatively you could purchase the Evike Matrix M160 dropin gearbox, replace the piston head (only failure I've had), and put in the AJAX STS to avoid the shell cracking.

Once all that is done, have Star_folder do the flat hop mod. Hey presto, a long range DMR.

My SPR has over $1000 in it, but if I was going to start from scratch I could build a rifle with similar performance for a fraction of that.

Example build:

Boneyard metal bodied M16: $75-100
Prommy tightbore + KWA 2GX bucking: $50ish
Dropin gearbox: $110
SHS high torque motor: $20
AJAX STS: $45
Giant lipo: $20

Total: About $350

I may have a more reliable than usual gearbox, but if they're all as reliable as mine then you would be getting a gun capable of 300' kills for approximately the cost of a new G&P/KWA/VFC/etc.

[Star_folder]

I'm just saying, but I really don't think you need an STS for V2s, Just having some sorbo on the cylinder head should be just fine, Just because steevo has had bad luck with one gearbox doesn't mean the rest of us have.

[SteevoLS]

Considering that the STS is cheaper than a reinforced shell (or one worth buying anyway), it seems worth the money.

I'm going to do an experiment shortly:
All my existing internals
JG shell (low end, dirt cheap, etc)
M160 or M170
AJAX STS

If that holds up for 1000 rounds fired as quickly as I can run 10 mids through it, I think I'll never bother with a reinforced shell.

[Star_folder]

Considering that the STS is cheaper than a reinforced shell (or one worth buying anyway), it seems worth the money.

I'm going to do an experiment shortly:
All my existing internals
JG shell (low end, dirt cheap, etc)
M160 or M170
AJAX STS

If that holds up for 1000 rounds fired as quickly as I can run 10 mids through it, I think I'll never bother with a reinforced shell.

I'll take you up on that challenge, except I'll use 70D sorbo.

Will a Guarder SP150 spring count as an M160 spring for you?

[VoidSuicide]

Let me know how your experiments go.

Anyway, I really am kind of leaning towards the m14, partially because I already have an m4 and m16. I just am very unfamiliar with the upgrade options for them.

[SteevoLS]

M160, SP150, whatever. They're all the same.

Now I just need to source a JG shell.

[Bishop]

Keep in mind, you don't need to run a full size m14. I run a m4 and it hits out to 250 feet consistently. Its pretty much accepted that after 450mm you don't need extra barrel length. If you going to go with a m14, I suggest using a Cyma SOCOM as a base. if you want to extend the barrel length, you could mount a fake suppressor, but you really don't need too.

*In all honesty, if I upped the fps about 50 to 75 I could prolly hit out to 300. Flat Hop is Sexy

[rack0730]

A friend of mine has the new KWA SR7 Devgru with an m130 and tightbore that shoots just as good as my M16 and thats 250-300ft.

[Bishop]

Unless hes done some major, and I mean major hop up work, I find it hard to believe hes hitting out there. The 2gx is a nice bucking, but... I dont see that happening without either a lot higher fps or flat hop.

[rack0730]

Maybe I should have said almost as good, its not quite there but its REAL close and with a little more work could be shooting a lot further. I am a man of incorrect wording.

[VoidSuicide]

Apparently I need to clear up a bit. as far as overall length of the weapon, the only length i would add is whatever length a suppressor had.

Also, I already have a cqbr, a dmr, and an in between gun, this is going to be my first personal build, and I plan for a full blown sniper that has a 100' med and makes people jump when shot within 200'.

Anyway, I think I've decided on the m14. I would prefer a full length version instead of one of the shortened socom ones tho. Whats the best options when it comes to price and external structure? Decent internals are nice, but rather unnecessary since most of them will be replaced during the build, so the only thing that truly matters is how good the body is. And I have yet to decide on wood or non wood, but I want to avoid fake wood if possible.

[Bishop]

The G&G is a rather nice Version if your looking at externals.

[Hatch]

And I have yet to decide on wood or non wood, but I want to avoid fake wood if possible.

I just got the wood kit for my CA M14 and it is amazing.