Mississippi Town Destroys Westboro Baptist Plans

[slickridley]

PART 2
If we were created perfect and there was a situation we could be put in to become imperfect then we were never perfect.


As an all knowing being, if he knew we would change from his ‘perfect’ vision and created us to do so, and knew that many would not accept his ‘truth’, he also knew this would result in eternal punishment for a sizable portion of the population. He therefor created some group of humans with the expressed intent of sending them to hell. If he loved humans why create hell at all? Why set up the universe in such a way that some of your creation will forever be punished? That is not a loving thing to do.


What kind of relationship can you have with a person that threatens to give you eternal pain if you don’t ‘choose’ to love them? Again, a loving being would not make another being if the vast majority of its existence will be pain and suffering. As you said, our lives on earth are inconsequential to eternity with or without god. Why base so much of their existence one what they decide based on 70 short years when there is so much conflicting information?


I did not confuse ‘doing’ with ‘letting happen.’ The situation with God is different from normal inaction because according to Christianity he is the original cause of ALL action. So he is not exempt from fault in any action just because he does not later interfere. He set the universe up so that that event would take place anyway. He did force our hand, we did not choose to be part of his game, he created humans to play and the rules by which we will participate. But he does not enforce those rules until it is too late to figure out which of the many rules people claim to be his were true.


It is also quite a claim that almost anyone chooses ‘eternal punishment’ over ‘eternal bliss.’ This is a false dichotomy and is not the actual decision people face. In reality people have a much more complicated decision. Is it worth giving up everything life presents them to join one of the many religions on this earth. There are so many conflicting views as well as how different everyone thinks, that to try to simplify this decision to “do you want to go to hell or not” is just ridiculous. No one wants eternal punishment, but not everyone believes its actually waiting for them.

[VoidSuicide]

In other news, I think that the last of their "statistics" proves that the only way to deal with them is to pummel them into oblivion. should they be making a trip to the sc, i think at least I will be making a trip to the town they visit so that i can throw a few punches myself.

[Doublewolf]

We can argue this point forever, but there is no proof that God exists, and there is also a distinct possibility that God does exist. That really isn't what this thread is about.

I think we can all agree on the above point, and if not, I would be happy to prove it because I actually can offer evidence to support it.

I also think we can agree that whatever the truth is, it isn't what these WBC freaks say.

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Why not just respect each other and not get into pointless arguments? I don't think that either side is going to give in, so it's probably a good idea to just stop.

[D.Smitty]

Also, I cite rule #5.

Quote from Charter:
"Rule #5: Personal attacks, "flaming", and "bashing" will not be tolerated and personal differences are not to be displayed or discussed on the forum. Differences in opinion can be discussed without personal attacks."

Please read and re-read that last sentence there. That's a tenet of the Nature of Science as well as the basic rules of civil argumentation. Present your conclusions and back them up with evidence. Begin at a basic statement and logically create a chain of implications until you get to your conclusion, otherwise you will get this:

[slickridley]

We can argue this point forever, but there is no proof that God exists, and there is also a distinct possibility that God does exist. That really isn't what this thread is about.

Regardless of an actual gods existence, whether or not the god of the christian bible is a good moral authority is still a relevant debate in regards to the morality of homosexuals.

I think we can all agree on the above point, and if not, I would be happy to prove it because I actually can offer evidence to support it.

Sounds intriguing, anyone who study's their world view to better understand it is bettering themselves. Present your evidence that I we might be able to discuss it.

I also think we can agree that whatever the truth is, it isn't what these WBC freaks say.

This assumption I can agree with.

Why not just respect each other and not get into pointless arguments? I don't think that either side is going to give in, so it's probably a good idea to just stop.

Arguments and debates are not pointless. They are a work out for the mind, keeps your mind sharp and keen.
A good debate will also change attitudes, thoughts and in general be very educational. This debate took place 11/7/2009 as part of the "The Intelligence Squared Debates", topic is "Is the Catholic church a force for good in the world?" and is produced by the BBC-World.
I will point everyone to this debate series, there are 5 videos, please watch all 5 videos before commenting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kuzYwzGoXw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AloG_pu1zmc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRpuFfGvEIc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEgdTfKZeME
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnerPDY87mM
This is a example of a great debate, everyone was civil presented their arguments in a reasonably educated manner.

[An Octopus]

Slick, it's not the fact that you're an atheist that bothers me, (and I'm pretty sure most of the others) it's the fact that you called Dom stupid for being a Christian. That was completely uncalled for and warrants an apology. Also, I cite Rule #1 which, in essence, states that common courtesy is to be shown on all parts of the forum at all times. Attacking someone's religious beliefs doesn't quite seem in accordance with that rule... Also, I will resubmit my request for you to provide an example from this thread where you were attacked by a Christian; I never saw one.

[slickridley]

Rather then nagging and complaining about irrelevant details, please stay on topic or let those involved continue without you.
I'll contend that the memetic insult was inappropriate, (sorry Dom) but the rest of my posts still stand.

[An Octopus]

Listen pal, I've got just as much of a right to post as you do. If you want to argue that I'm off topic, I'll throw it right back at you. This thread is about the Westboro Baptist Church. If my logic is in tact, that doesn't read "Argue your religious beliefs here". I'll die before let some lowlife punk attack the core of my very identity. My insult was completely appropriate, considering the fact that you prompted it. Why don't you try to respond to me in a civil manner?

[Hatch]

I dont see how your YouTube links helps your point, it just doesnt make much sense to me.

[slickridley]

Due to Octopus manning up I have removed this post.


--
ninja edit,
what this thread has been about summed up in a picture..

[slickridley]

I don't see how your YouTube videos helps your point, it just doesn't make much sense to me.

Then you have not yet comprehended the videos, they are reasonably relevant to this discussion.
If you need some help in understand please pull out the parts or take note so that we may explore them.

[An Octopus]

PM inbound Slick.

[Doublewolf]

I've decided not to make this post until I remember my conclusion because without the conclusion, I just look incredibly dumb.

I also want to make it clear that I'm not an atheist.

[idiot88]

So, does God hate me if I am a male lesbian? ;-)

[slickridley]

I've decided not to make this post until I remember my conclusion because without the conclusion, I just look incredibly dumb.

I also want to make it clear that I'm not an atheist.

The universe has waited 13 Billion years for your answer, I'm sure it'd be ok if we waited a little while longer