To upgrade, or not to upgrade, that is the question. (PDMR)

[vode635]

Yeah, another one of those DMR/PDMR upgrade question threads.

In the past couple of weeks I've taken out my gun to a few pickup games, for the first time pitting it against other AEGs and GBBs. I am using a Ignite Viper (walmart M4) stock and found that several times I was taken out because my gun was outranged and I could not safely close the gap.

Now to those of you who have bothered to look up the gun I am using I pose this question. Is this gun worth the money/time that it would take to noticeably improve its range/accuracy or would you recommend I just leave it as is and save up for a much better gun in the future? I have put roughly 1K rounds through it and have experienced no problems and have only found the range lacking.

If it is worth my time and money, what would you techies recommend? I know that hop-up+6.03-6.05 TBB upgrades are usually recommended and sometimes a spring replacement is a good thing, but is there anything more specific that I should be looking for? My target is roughly 100-150 ft./380-390 FPS (whichever comes first really, I'm not entirely sure how FPS and range interact but I believe I am right in saying that they are loosely connected.)

I'm not looking to fill a sniper role. Rather I would simply like to be able to put effective fire on my target before they can, possibly filling a light suppressive role from mid-long range.

Here's a link to the gun in question. I haven't had the gun chronoed yet so I don't know what my gun acctually shoots, just what the box claims it does.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Ignite-Black- ... e/21621690

[Stomper87]

Short answer: Buy a new gun.

I'm sure that gun uses a plastic gearbox, so it really can't be upgraded. Even the inner barrel and hop up... You might be able to upgrade that, but I would be a mess, and defiantly not with your time or money. Plus, you're not going to be happy with your gun shooting around 200-250 fps, which it probably is.

You should check out some of the guns for sale on this forum, great deals on moderate guns.

[Skywalker]

That gun is not worth investing in. Its a M4.

Also, the internals are probably pretty weak. You are much better off starting with a new rifle.

[Felix]

If you try to use the gun you have, the internal costs of replacing the entire gearbox, hopup, and barrel may just outweigh the cost of buying either a new gun or a slightly used gun and replacing some parts. For something to bridge the DMR gap, you may only need to put into it something like 100$ for say a new motor, spring, spring guide, >HOP UP<, and piston. Batteries are always good to amp it up.

Self whoring here but I have an ASGI G4A3 for sale up in the FS section, the gun already has a TBB installed, so all you would need to put in is a new hopup bucking (or custom, talk to Star_Folder if hes accepting orders) a spring, motor, and whatever else before mentioned. For 220ish its probably the cheapest youll find (minus buying a DMR for 450$)

[vode635]

I was afraid of this. Guess I'll have to sock away money for a little bit, keep this thing as a loaner/backup gun. 200 is on the expensive side for me ATM, but I'll keep your gun in mind Felix.

Thanks for ya'lls opinions, just wish I'd have gotten them sooner, lol

[SteevoLS]

A good hopup job would work wonders.

[vode635]

Is there any sort of job that wouldn't cost to much? After all if I plan to buy a different gun, which seems to be the course to take at the moment, I wouldn't want to spend to much on what would be a backup gun when I would want to focus most of my efforts at upgrading on my newer gun.

=edit=
Nevermind, found something in the selling forums.

[JumpGunner]

Any combat machine is a good upgrade. The body is surprisingly sturdy and the gearbox is metal. It accepts ver2 upgrades and is $140 on most airsoft sites. go to airsoftgi and use the 20.5% off coupon code and you will be getting very close to $100 for a gun that is ready to use on the field. (we use these as rentals out at the swamp. This is the one low cost gun I would let a 10yr old run around with without having to worry if it will come back broken) And if something does break the parts are fairly cheap.

[marpat96]

Aftermath MP5s in sporting good stores aren't half bad, they're just old Cyma MP5s from circa 2007? Don't quot that but they take well to upgrades and are decent for the money.

[RECON95]

i have recently bought this m4. and i was feeling the same way you were. ignite has come out with a better M4 viper. it removes the cary handle and rear sight and adds a flip up(cheap) rear sight. it changes out the front handguard for a plastic 6.5 inch quad rail. they have also upgraded to a full metal-ish gun. the only true plastic parts is the quad rail, front locking ring and delta ring cover. the rear stock is the same polymer plastic as a real M4, and i think they kept the same polymer upper and lower reciver and front sight. the rest is full metal.

i had a similar outcome when challenging other AEG's and GBB's, and found that changing out the piston head, spring, and battery actually did a LOT of improvement. the old piston head created a lot if friction between the cup and tube, i switched it uot for a full-roll-seal head and not only did my FPS increase, so did the rate of fire. i exsperemented with a couple of springs and found that the spring from the NERF stampede was perfect for me. it was softer but somehow worked better than harder springs from other AEG's. i upgraded to a double battery setup, stock battery plus a 4s lipo bar.
before;
fps-360-420 w/12g, 340-350 w/20g
range-100-150 ft
rate of fire- aprox. 600
after;
fps-387-394 w/25g
range-200 full-auto, 280 semi
rate of fire- 970 on average, my mags couldnt keep up feeding with the rate of fire

i added a red dot and removed the front sight and replaced it with a gas block amd moved the rear sight to the front of the top quad rail, and it has been a perfect setup for cqb and field games. red dot zeroed for long distance and just look over and flip up the rear sight for cqb. the only thig i would change now is the quad rail for a full metal 8.5in and get a master-key for it, laser, flashlight.
over all, i only spent about $120 on internals, cheaper than up-to-par equivalents

[Skywalker]

i have recently bought this m4. and i was feeling the same way you were. ignite has come out with a better M4 viper. it removes the cary handle and rear sight and adds a flip up(cheap) rear sight. it changes out the front handguard for a plastic 6.5 inch quad rail. they have also upgraded to a full metal-ish gun. the only true plastic parts is the quad rail, front locking ring and delta ring cover. the rear stock is the same polymer plastic as a real M4, and i think they kept the same polymer upper and lower reciver and front sight. the rest is full metal.

i had a similar outcome when challenging other AEG's and GBB's, and found that changing out the piston head, spring, and battery actually did a LOT of improvement. the old piston head created a lot if friction between the cup and tube, i switched it uot for a full-roll-seal head and not only did my FPS increase, so did the rate of fire. i exsperemented with a couple of springs and found that the spring from the NERF stampede was perfect for me. it was softer but somehow worked better than harder springs from other AEG's. i upgraded to a double battery setup, stock battery plus a 4s lipo bar.
before;
fps-360-420 w/12g, 340-350 w/20g
range-100-150 ft
rate of fire- aprox. 600
after;
fps-387-394 w/25g
range-200 full-auto, 280 semi
rate of fire- 970 on average, my mags couldnt keep up feeding with the rate of fire

i added a red dot and removed the front sight and replaced it with a gas block amd moved the rear sight to the front of the top quad rail, and it has been a perfect setup for cqb and field games. red dot zeroed for long distance and just look over and flip up the rear sight for cqb. the only thig i would change now is the quad rail for a full metal 8.5in and get a master-key for it, laser, flashlight.
over all, i only spent about $120 on internals, cheaper than up-to-par equivalents

*squints* Echo1, is that you?

[crossfire876]

Yeah, another one of those DMR/PDMR upgrade question threads.

In the past couple of weeks I've taken out my gun to a few pickup games, for the first time pitting it against other AEGs and GBBs. I am using a Ignite Viper (walmart M4) stock and found that several times I was taken out because my gun was outranged and I could not safely close the gap.

Now to those of you who have bothered to look up the gun I am using I pose this question. Is this gun worth the money/time that it would take to noticeably improve its range/accuracy or would you recommend I just leave it as is and save up for a much better gun in the future? I have put roughly 1K rounds through it and have experienced no problems and have only found the range lacking.

If it is worth my time and money, what would you techies recommend? I know that hop-up+6.03-6.05 TBB upgrades are usually recommended and sometimes a spring replacement is a good thing, but is there anything more specific that I should be looking for? My target is roughly 100-150 ft./380-390 FPS (whichever comes first really, I'm not entirely sure how FPS and range interact but I believe I am right in saying that they are loosely connected.)

I'm not looking to fill a sniper role. Rather I would simply like to be able to put effective fire on my target before they can, possibly filling a light suppressive role from mid-long range.

Here's a link to the gun in question. I haven't had the gun chronoed yet so I don't know what my gun acctually shoots, just what the box claims it does.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Ignite-Black- ... e/21621690

The Black Ops Viper M4 is an APS rebrand, on par with the entry level Javelin AEG's. Airsoft society has a couple of threads on the AEG, please click the link below and see if you can verify that this is the one you own or not. Page 5 has a few pictures of the externals and some unique markings on the receiver that should be easy to match up.

http://www.airsoftsociety.com/forums/f1 ... ing-60525/

If this is the AEG you have, there is nothing wrong with spending a few dollars to make it shoot a little better. The only proprietary parts, to my knowledge, are the AR latch and it potentially uses a V6 tappet plate. You may do yourself a world of difference by swapping out a bucking, Steevols is on the money.

The stat sheet says 420 w/ 0.12g, which is around 330fps with a 0.20g, top of the 0ft MED for the AOSC. That FPS is plenty respectable and should have no problem reaching out to 100-150ft. If you are actually shooting the FPS the box claims, then the problem is likely the hop up or the BB's themselves.

Honestly, before junking it, I would open it and work heavy on some compression tuning. Change out the piston o-ring for a Danco #14 and drop in a G&G green bucking. They're usually pretty easy to drop in any hop up. The barrel isn't going to be the best of quality, but as long as it's clean, straight, and relatively smooth, you'll get far more benefit from messing with the hop up than the barrel. Spend some time cleaning the fool out of it since any China gun comes with all sorts of crap gunked up everywhere. Get the AEG shooting within +-5 fps and you'll be surprised at how usable an entry level AEG can be, all without breaking the bank.

Those two things would cost you less than $10.

As to PDMR etc, I'd honestly suggest topping the 0ft with a nice hop and see what you think. If you aren't satisfied with that then we can start talking about a few things to make it reliably shoot harder.