The Delimitation Conflict - April 16th & 17th

[Dominum]

Right, the HMMWV is for drops, and will be used by both sides (not sure of the exact mechanics, not making the scenario) but it is not to be fired upon, near, from, behind, etc. in any manner.

I assume there will be timed HMMWV drop options given to each of us at various times, so we essentially get to take turns doing small drops of our personnel behind enemy lines with it. But no, we won't have an awesome advantage like that, though I wish LOL!

[fallout11]

I, like UF_Jester, am now confused.  For one, I cannot believe that an approaching pickup truck load of enemy troops (with the windows rolled up) cannot simply be nerfed into oblivion, as they properly should. I've taken nerfs to the face, there is no danger of a stray round hurting someone.  If so, I'm better off driving my "invincible" truck around the venue and leaving my purpose-built non-transporting tank at home. 
Similarly, we were perfectly okay with the concept of having our exposed pintle-mount hatch gunner on top of an otherwise enclosed AFV hosed down and killed with BB's (as would be the case in RL).  The previously published and mentioned rules, taken almost straight from NC/CDW, made sense to me, they've worked at Fulda.

I guess what I'm asking is what is wrong with:
1) "If it is exposed, shoot it."*
2) If it is not exposed, nerf it."
3)* Unless it is the HMMWVV
Look, we'll play with whatever you guys decide, I don't mean to sound like I'm complaining.

[Thrush]

why exactly is the humvee being used at all?

[fallout11]

Thrush brings up another good question.  The HMMWVV sounds very delicate, might be best left off the field. With 200+ players firing away and no other way to eliminate it, you know it is going to get shot inadvertently (and possibly out of frustration). Probably a lot.
I would not bring a Ming vase out on the field and simply say "don't shoot it". 

Thrush, I think it is meant to simulate a helo drop, in terms of mechanics.  Of course, if it sets down in a hot LZ.....

[Romba]

I would not bring a Ming vase out on the field and simply say "don't shoot it".

"LOOK EVERYONE THIS IS AN ANCIENT CHINESE VASE WORTH A FORTUNE. IT'S MY GOOD LUCK CHARM SO I'M GONNA CARRY IT AROUND. PLEASE DONT SHOOT IT."     

You know there are some players who are going to shoot the vase just because you ask them NOT to. Same goes for the Humvee...

[Veimos]

The humvee SEEMS to be there for an "airdrop" effect.  It allows you to drop enemy troops off in strategic locations that is extremely helpful for those times when teams are at a "standoff".  It'll give the "Generals" another tool to work with, and give the game a slightly more real feel.  This is just my guess from past experiences.  And if someone can't understand the simple concept of DON'T shoot this big honkin thing right here (points to it), then they really shouldn't be attending a game with rules like, "don't take off your face mask during a game", or "don't shoot people at pointblank".  Because really the concept is a simple as that.

p.s.
You do realize no one will be firing from this thing right? 

[Thrush]

luckily, in all airsoft events, both large and small, everybody always obeys the rules, nobody gets excited, and nothing deemed off-limits or valuable is ever shot at, so this person's enormously expensive vehicle is 100% safe from 200+ calm, fully rested, rational thinking people wearing face covering and dressed alike, not the least bit trigger happy with their automatic weapons; of course the humvee is 100% safe, why should the no-fire rule even be stated? I'm sure it's a safe as a handcuffed naked cheerleader at a biker meth party.
AND
Who get's access to the delivery service and when? In my humble opinion, there's room for possible abuse and possible unfair advantage, not to mention scratched paint and another chipped windshield. Perhaps it might not be a bad to rethink using a shared dropship.

[savoy6]

given that i haven't seem alot of enclosed AFVs in pics from other SC events...i'm guessing that technicals will be pretty common.....since we can no longer use our AT on them..what are going to be some of the rules for technicals?.....is there going to be any of the medic sandwiching action going on?...

[GARRETT]

luckily, in all airsoft events, both large and small, everybody always obeys the rules, nobody gets excited, and nothing deemed off-limits or valuable is ever shot at, so this person's enormously expensive vehicle is 100% safe from 200+ calm, fully rested, rational thinking people wearing face covering and dressed alike, not the least bit trigger happy with their automatic weapons; of course the humvee is 100% safe, why should the no-fire rule even be stated? I'm sure it's a safe as a handcuffed naked cheerleader at a biker meth party.
AND
Who get's access to the delivery service and when? In my humble opinion, there's room for possible abuse and possible unfair advantage, not to mention scratched paint and another chipped windshield. Perhaps it might not be a bad to rethink using a shared dropship.

Trust me, there is NO room for possible abuse and possible unfair advantage. While I do love to win, winning by cheating is not in my DNA bro. The HMWVV will start with GA at 10:am. And will be moved to which ever team scored the least points at the last checkpoint.  Any of the guys who have played games where we have used the HMWVV can vouch for the effectiveness and fun had by all.

given that i haven't seem alot of enclosed AFVs in pics from other SC events...i'm guessing that technicals will be pretty common.....since we can no longer use our AT on them..what are going to be some of the rules for technicals?.....is there going to be any of the medic sandwiching action going on?...

The technical which is in a lot of the pics will be an armored vehicle in this game. Changes are being made right now.

[fallout11]

So....we can nerf it, but not shoot (BB's at) the riders?

[Thrush]

I compliment your genetic purity, bro, and am sure all will be well

[Thrush]

look, I'm not talking about cheating, I'm talking about things like the inadvertant timing of drops that might accidentally benefit one team over another at a crucial juncture. Also, people, especially noobs, get can get a little trigger happy when the adrenaline gets pumping, when they get tired and punchy, and when they get frustrated, not necessarily out of malice. The odds are yes, somebody's gonna shoot the humvee. But, if the owner is willing to chance it, I'm willing to hitch a ride.

[Veimos]

look, I'm not talking about cheating, I'm talking about things like the inadvertant timing of drops that might accidentally benefit one team over another at a crucial juncture.

I'd say that is one of the points of the humvee, and general strategy.  Welcome to war....soft.

Also, people, especially noobs, get can get a little trigger happy when the adrenaline gets pumping, when they get tired and punchy, and when they get frustrated, not necessarily out of malice. The odds are yes, somebody's gonna shoot the humvee. But, if the owner is willing to chance it, I'm willing to hitch a ride.

If you look under game pictures, AOSC Anniversary game, and you'll hear the guy say his window got chipped.  It was A LOT of gunfire.  (actually here's a link) AOSC AIRSOFT Anniversary OP - Combat Vehicle Cam - 

As far as people shooting it...sure it might happen.  At Op Domino though we had 120 people and I did not witness, or HEAR of anyone shooting the 2 1/2 ton we had there.  So have faith in your fellow players.

(Thrush this wasn't all directed at you, it's more of in response to anyone worried about the Humvee.)

[Dominum]

I, like UF_Jester, am now confused.  For one, I cannot believe that an approaching pickup truck load of enemy troops (with the windows rolled up) cannot simply be nerfed into oblivion, as they properly should. I've taken nerfs to the face, there is no danger of a stray round hurting someone.  If so, I'm better off driving my "invincible" truck around the venue and leaving my purpose-built non-transporting tank at home. 
Similarly, we were perfectly okay with the concept of having our exposed pintle-mount hatch gunner on top of an otherwise enclosed AFV hosed down and killed with BB's (as would be the case in RL).  The previously published and mentioned rules, taken almost straight from NC/CDW, made sense to me, they've worked at Fulda.

I guess what I'm asking is what is wrong with:
1) "If it is exposed, shoot it."*
2) If it is not exposed, nerf it."
3)* Unless it is the HMMWVV
Look, we'll play with whatever you guys decide, I don't mean to sound like I'm complaining.

You may have taken Nerfs to the face from a 203, but I feel confident you have not from a rocket launcher. I have seen videos of ones with the same specs as mine go through interior doors. Granted, that's not going through a solid board, but I am willing to bet money that that means it can crack a rib, or at least knock someones eyepro far away from them, knock them unconscious, hit something hard (like an AEG) that is in front of them and shove it into their face fracturing something, or knock them off balance enough to fall out if they are standing up behind the cab. Now, if you are willing to prove me wrong on this serious safety matter by testing this yourself, feel free to do so. Until then, we are not going to put players at serious medical risk for your convenience. Sorry you do not agree, but I think that our obligation to protect players from serious harm trumps our obligation to make the rule set to your liking.

why exactly is the humvee being used at all?

The same reason the Deuce and a half was used at Op Domino, to provide a drop vehicle for each commander to take advantage of, to provide a more realistic feel, and to allow everyone a chance to ride in a real military vehicle.

Thrush brings up another good question.  The HMMWVV sounds very delicate, might be best left off the field. With 200+ players firing away and no other way to eliminate it, you know it is going to get shot inadvertently (and possibly out of frustration). Probably a lot.
I would not bring a Ming vase out on the field and simply say "don't shoot it". 

Thrush, I think it is meant to simulate a helo drop, in terms of mechanics.  Of course, if it sets down in a hot LZ.....

Yes, you can equate it to a helo drop as far as game mechanics go. The rule set was used at Op Domino, not a single player fired at it, and it was one of the largest games we've ever had. Our players have no problem complying with this rule. I see no reason to believe that Georgians would have problems complying, but since you have more experience playing with them, I will defer to your judgement if you think they will not be able to comply.

luckily, in all airsoft events, both large and small, everybody always obeys the rules, nobody gets excited, and nothing deemed off-limits or valuable is ever shot at, so this person's enormously expensive vehicle is 100% safe from 200+ calm, fully rested, rational thinking people wearing face covering and dressed alike, not the least bit trigger happy with their automatic weapons; of course the humvee is 100% safe, why should the no-fire rule even be stated? I'm sure it's a safe as a handcuffed naked cheerleader at a biker meth party.
AND
Who get's access to the delivery service and when? In my humble opinion, there's room for possible abuse and possible unfair advantage, not to mention scratched paint and another chipped windshield. Perhaps it might not be a bad to rethink using a shared dropship.

Like any other game mechanic, knowing ahead of time would make it somewhat superflous, now wouldn't it? Of course there is room for possible unfair advantage! That's the whole point, when Jester has it, he will have an advantage, when I have it, it will afford me the same.

So....we can nerf it, but not shoot (BB's at) the riders?

It's very simple, before the game, each vehicle will be examined and put into one of the two categories. This will be made known to everyone, and the rule sets for each will apply respectively. If it has exposed passengers, unarmored. If it is enclosed, armored. Honestly, if you think that vehicles are going to be more trouble than they are worth, I have no problem whatsoever with Garrett doing away with vehicles altogether at this game, as it seems to be merely complicating things and may turn out to be a fuster cluck based on some of these posts.

look, I'm not talking about cheating, I'm talking about things like the inadvertant timing of drops that might accidentally benefit one team over another at a crucial juncture. Also, people, especially noobs, get can get a little trigger happy when the adrenaline gets pumping, when they get tired and punchy, and when they get frustrated, not necessarily out of malice. The odds are yes, somebody's gonna shoot the humvee. But, if the owner is willing to chance it, I'm willing to hitch a ride.

Ummm... that's exactly what drops do, they give an advantage to the team using them. That's why both sides will have equal opportunity for access to them, though obviously at different times. If someone is so uncontrolled that they can not stop themselves from shooting the one massive and readily identifiable thing that they were expressly told they would be kicked out for shooting, then chances are this is not the sport for them. Though, again, if you genuinely see this being a major problem or are honestly concerned that this will somehow benefit us more than you (even though we get the same access) then I can call John right now and tell him not to bring it. I have no problem with that.



Bear in mind please, that in making this game, your commander has uncensored access to the private thread for planning this game, the same access and knowledge available to me. Additionally, as a courtesy to Georgia (being you are our guests) you were given the choice of which base you preferred. I have been speaking with Jester, and he has not expressed any concerns of one sided game mechanics thus far. If he shares your opinions and requests that either the HMMWV or the vehicles as a whole simply be removed altogether to make things more fair, and avoid likely rule problems, I would wholeheartedly support his request and I am sure Garrett would do so.

Also, due to the massive turnout expected, one of our Reps (Diesel) has volunteered to admin rather than play, so as to answer any questions in the field and resolve any disputes that arise quickly and calmly. If you (Georgians) would like someone that you choose to accompany him and do the same, you are more than welcome to. (Obviously whomever you choose should be well versed in our rules and carry a copy of them.)

We are trying to make this as fair a game as possible for both sides, and be accommodating where possible. We want this game to establish an amicable relationship between the players of our two states, and thusly we are more than happy to hear your concerns voiced here. Hopefully my response will help to assuage them.

[Thrush]

sounds like a plan to me, looking forward to the event