AOSC Forum Archive

I thought this article was great.

http://www.retirelikeme.com/2011/04/21/ ... ist-plans/

I love it! +1 for that town.

Hahaha, that is awesome.

That town is so full of win right now.

Religion, a hell of a drug.

Don't you just love it when people put words in God's mouth?

The Bible (God's word) is explicitly clear on homosexuality. Homosexuals, like all other humans on this planet (yes, ALL) were created in God's image and he loves them inexorably. However, we as humans (all of us) choose/chose to defy God's perfect law in many various forms. One of these forms is homosexuality. God finds homosexual acts wrong, as they are clearly a violation of his law and the way he designed us to live. God hates the act and practice of homosexuality, but he does NOT hate homosexuals. Just like God hates any and every other form of sin, and yet loves those who sin and wishes they would choose not to. He does not want to harm homosexuals or any other sinner (read "all humans"). He wishes for each and every one of us, homosexuals included, to repent and have a personal relationship with him via his son Jesus Christ. God knows that his law is perfect, and since we have violated it we can never be perfect. However, he sent his one and only son (incarnated and being both fully man AND fully God) to submit himself as a sacrifice on our behalf. What this means is though no man can ever be perfect in and of themselves, a blameless sacrifice was offered to pay our debt in full; we have only to accept this free give and our debt will be paid and our sins forgiven. We will then still be imperfect, however Jesus serves as our arbiter and since he did not owe any debt for sin (having never sinned) his payment is therefore an intercession on our behalf so that when we die we may stand blameless before a holy God, though not by virtue of our own actions. Homosexuals are no different. Their homosexuality is a sin that they will have to struggle to overcome; just like any and every other sinful practice that we as humans struggle with. However, God wishes each and every homosexual to accept Christ's gift of salvation, repent, and allow the Holy Spirit to aide them in overcoming their homosexuality. This is what God says; making it more than or less than that is a distortion of his words and is wrong. It doesn't do him any favors and serves to give those with whom he still wishes to have a personal relationship with (everyone not yet saved) an excuse not to become so.

Wow. +1

If you've seen their website, you know these guys are crazy. It's almost so ridiculous you think they can't be serious, but they are. I mean, they have a counter that says how many people God has sent to hell since you visited the page. These people are really F'd up in the head.

http://icensoredtheurl.com

Look at the bottom left. Warning: After seeing this you may want to go to Kansas and beat these people up, that is, if you don't already. I know I do.

I went to their website... apparently there were 16 billion people inhabiting the planet when the Great Flood occurred. Master historians, them Although good ol' Malthus could've proven that figure wrong...

God doesn't send people to hell. People choose to reject God. Hell is our default destination, God saves people from going there if they choose to accept his offer to do so.

Dominum wrote:Don't you just love it when people put words in God's mouth?

The Bible (God's word) is explicitly clear on homosexuality. Homosexuals, like all other humans on this planet (yes, ALL) were created in God's image and he loves them inexorably. However, we as humans (all of us) choose/chose to defy God's perfect law in many various forms. One of these forms is homosexuality. God finds homosexual acts wrong, as they are clearly a violation of his law and the way he designed us to liv...blahblahblah.... It doesn't do him any favors and serves to give those with whom he still wishes to have a personal relationship with (everyone not yet saved) an excuse not to become so.

Let me just say this, if I ever see these people anywhere I do not know what I would do but it would definitely be bad, I have absolutely no respect for these people at all, in fact I can 100% say that I hate these people

I am all for free speech and every thing but screw that in this case, these guys take it to far

I believe that if anybody if going to go to hell it is these guys, but that is just what i believe

and how dare they call them selves Baptist

I know that not every body is gonna agree with my views and i do not want to get into an argument so I am done with this thread, I do not like even thinking about these guys the piss me off that much

Definition of STUPID:
1
a : slow of mind : obtuse
b : given to unintelligent decisions or acts : acting in an unintelligent or careless manner
c : lacking intelligence or reason : brutish

Slick, though you may vehemently disagree with my set of beliefs, calling them stupid (or calling me stupid for holding them) is something that can only be claimed by someone either extremely poorly informed or who simply has not considered the question thoroughly. The question being of course the ultimate one; "why?" Christianity as it is put forth in the New Testament of the Bible, from what I have found in my research, is the most logical and really the singular explanation for life, it's purpose, and how and why the reality we inhabit exists as such. I have yet to find any explanation that makes more factual sense, and I have tried hard to do so. Some belief sets allow people to fool themselves into thinking there is no God. This is not so much stupid as it is self deluding. We all inherently know that there is/must be something/someone that created everything. People often attribute the universe to happenstance, and matter and energy as somehow coming into existence just "because". However, the very fact that there are innumerable laws (yes, laws. Mathematical principles that literally govern the physical universe without wavering. They can and are calculated and observed) in and of themselves denote that there had to have been (ergo must be) some engineer to have put the laws in place. If you happen upon something as simple as a hammer in the woods, you would be crazy to assume that it made itself from chance. You could argue it's possibility, but the considerably more logical and certainly more readily available answer is that it was created. Even if you argued it's appearance by happenstance, you could not deny the physical laws that had to be in place for that to have occurred. Therefore anyone not either willfully deluding themselves, or failing to consider the question thoroughly must conclude from a purely empirical basis that there is a "God" of some kind. We then move on to the question of who is this creator, what is his nature, and why were me created by him? This is a much more difficult question to answer. However, if it were as simple as anyone and everyone's beleifs being equally valid, or there being nothing to believe in, then there would be no reason for us to have been engineered with an innate sense of self awareness and an unquenchable desire to know why. There are many, many religions and sets of beliefs that don't call themselves "religion", but exist so as to answer the same question. I found a common thread amongst every single one of them, except one. This common thread which all these sets of beliefs subscribe to is this: we must do something ourselves through our own power to be in the right. In other words, it is by works through which we make ourselves right with this creator (or the plural in some cases). In some of these it is that there is no singular God, but that it is a collective entity which we can aspire to become part of, or that everything is relative, or even that we are ourselves "God" and are not aware of it (yet). Most religions accept the basic premise of an absolute right and wrong, and that there is a God we should strive to please. They implore us to do so via things we may value, such as doing good things and not doing bad things. God has created this universe with many absolute laws which govern it. In order to even presume that we exist we must first accept that there are, in fact, absolutes. Then we must decide whether or not we believe in moral absolutes. God is perfect, as the genesis of all of reality he himself is the definition of perfection and completion. He has to be, as the only logical derivation is that since he made what we perceive he must predate and supersede it. Therefore he not only sets the standard, he is the standard. If he did not make a moral law, then we are simply here to do what? Have a good time? Have a bad time? What then? Clearly he has given us free will. Free will is useless without choices to make with it, therefore he has a standard and this allows us an option as to whether or not to follow it. So, we can presuppose he has a moral law that he wishes us to aspire to. However, if we were by default already in accordance with it; or if we could manage to live up to it via our own discipline of mind and body then we would not need him and our purpose here would be pointless. To assume that we can be perfect like God because of our actions is both arrogant and foolish, as that would put us on an equal footing with the one who created us. So we further conclude that we do not currently, nor can we ever, make ourselves "good enough" to overcome the disconnect between ourselves and God (perfection). Since God created us with unbridled free will, and a nagging desire to discover the truth about him we can derive that he wants us to choose to know him. He must want a relationship with us then. If he wanted simply our obedience or our acknowledgment he would simply make it so, or make the evidence of it literally undeniable. But he didn't. He created a world for us, and let's both bad and good take place. Why does God allow suffering? Does he do it to punish us? No, he allowed the good and the bad so as to let us make up our own minds about him. This is the only way in which we can come to know him personally and honestly. Were he to heal all Christians who were faithful and not let any earthly harm come to them, what then would be the purpose of seeking God yourself? People would see this and convert out of self preservation. God allows us (all people, those saved and those not) to experience the universe in whatever manner we will. Sometimes it hurts, sometimes it is great. However, due to this open ended experience we are left to truly choose for ourselves on an individual level whether or not we want to know him and accept his truth. We cannot succeed if we are not allowed to fail; love isn't love if it is forced. If we accept this, how then can we know this creator and be right with him? Well, having already concluded that he has absolute moral laws which we are in breach of, and operating under the truth that we are not God and thus cannot be perfect of our own accord; we must then conclude that he will make a way by which we can do so. Well, there is only one religion or set of beliefs in the world that purports this to be the case. Christianity as it is prescribed by the bible as it is. According to the Bible, God made a way by which the debt that we owe for being in breach of his law can be paid by the only one who is able to pay it: God himself. By way of his son Jesus Christ he managed to fulfill our "legal" (if you will) obligation. The only way we could bridge the gap between his perfection and our falling short of it is this. Why doesn't he take us to him right then, or at least stop us from having to suffer the ills of this world, if he loves us so much? If he did, how much of a real choice would others still have? He wants our love, but only if it's real. It can only be real if it is a choice not thrust upon us, but discovered ourselves. What we must also understand is that no matter how horrible we perceive something to be (emotional or physical pain) it is inconsequential to an eternity either apart from God, or with God. It really doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of things. What does matter is whether or not we as individuals not only discover God's truth, but choose to accept it and the gift of salvation it provides.

This is a very condensed version of the logical progression I have followed to the conclusion that the Bible is God's word, and it's prescription for salvation and the premises to which is subscribes are in fact the most logical, and singularly consistent explanation of the universe and our place in it. You may think it entirely false Steven, but I do not think that you can easily claim my conclusion to be a stupid one. I ask you to take a moment to examine this string of deductions and decide if you think I am being unintelligent or careless in my analysis of the facts with which our reality presents itself. I think that if we are honest with ourselves and consider things as they are, this is really the only conclusion that makes any ultimate sense.