Operation Flash Heaven 2

[marpat96]

The game was itself a pretty good one, it started off slow for me, but my favorite part was going to hunt down Dom, which did not work.

[Vesper]

Due to some unforeseen circumstances, we arrived a "bit" late. We played for about 4 hours, and I have to say, I had a blast. The game was constantly going and was very smooth.

[stuckmojo]

this was my first time admining an aosc sanctioned game and i must say i really enjoyed myself. much props to all the players that game...there was very good sportmanship on both sides. and i will say i thoroughly enjoyed watching both alpha and bravo. good play and tactics on both sides. bravo offically won by completeing 6 of their objectives to alphas 4 and honestly alpha would have won if it had not been for vesper. he ran out of ammo and let his gun hang down and walked around safety killing all the alpha players in the training camp uncontested. let this be a lesson for alpha players always shoot your enemy if they dont have a dead rag on their heads. much props to vesper for that . but i meant what i said about good play from all players it made the game enjoyable for me.

[bladeairsoft]

Fantastic job, especially for having to switch admins at the last minute (from what I heard). Well organized and well run, constant engaging gameplay and objectives. Again great job and thanks for a great op.

[GREEN NINJA]

Im glad everyone enjoyed my senerio and event set-up. Thanks to stuckmojo and dom for admining and hosting the event in my absence. I knew stuck would do a great job as an admin and dom as always knows how to get things rolling out there. Sorry i couldnt make it but i had been dying to go to Red Storm and really needed some high quality combat time since i have been hosting events a great deal for the past couple years. Thanks to all who came out to BH, cant wait to hear some more about vespers sneak attacks, lol.

[Foxx]

I think we can all agree this game was run excellently; When things got slow, the admins got it moving again. That in itself made the game a great one.

I also really enjoyed the location of the training center. I hadn't spent much time in that area of the field until this game, and I really liked it. Just enough cover to stay protected, but not enough to create a range-war.

All in all, definitely got my money's worth.

Oh, and seeing James take a head shot and drop like a sack of bricks during the first bravo charge was pretty amusing.

[marpat96]

@ Green Ninja, hope you had a good time at Red Storm, and the game down here was run very well. I hope Steel Griffin Convoy will be a great game as well, looking foward to it.

[superfrog]

Great game. I really enjoyed the last half especially reaching out and touching those on the ridge who never expected it. Now that was fun. The sides seemed very balanced this time and there was a lot of maneuvering and some awesome battles.

I did have one thing I didn't understand though. I talked to vesper about it personally after the game so everything is out there, but the kills at the end which Mojo referred to caused me to question the rules.
At the beginning of the day there was a specific announcement about walking around acting like you were looking for something and getting kills. I believe the spirit of this rule is to walk around seemingly disengaged and then doing safety kills. Vesper was completely out of ammo and walked around with his gun upright leaning on his shoulder acting like he was just meandering around looking for something. All the while getting safety kills or getting kills by sneaking up on people. There were many who didn't have dead rags throughout the day and were walking around with their hands up or their guns either straight up or pointed down.
I know the response will be that he didn't have a dead rag but unfortunately there were a lot of guys standing around without dead rags on and they were hit. Mojo, you were there when I shot the guy from behind and he got a bit upset because I kept hitting him with 3 round bursts until he finally put his hand up but and you asked him where his dead rag was and he said he didn't have one.
I know you said something about it at the time to shoot anyone who didn't have a dead rag but this style of play was said not to be tolerated before the game started and yet the outcome was ultimately decided due to this very action.
Don't get me wrong, I am not upset or mad, just a bit confused.
I told vesper that it will create sour grapes and he said not to be a sore looser, and we both had a great laugh about it so no hard feelings by any means.
Just a question for fodder. Either this is accepted or it isn't. Here in NC that whole situation wouldn't have counted, but I know we were in SC.

[SteevoLS]

Here is exactly what the rule says:

Rule #5: Any person leaving bounds, wearing a dead rag, or otherwise indicating they are no longer in play (ex: saying they are looking for something, etc.), are no longer in play, and in order to reenter game play must return to their respective respawn point pursuant to the respawn rules in effect at said game.

Walking around with your gun in a nonagressive posture could be interpreted as indicating you were dead. Many players choose to ignore people who do this, and it frequently ends up with somebody doing something like Vesper did. This is why our "dead" rules require you to have a dead rag. Many players forget dead rags, and even more deliberately don't use them.

I interpret the rules of the AOSC pretty strictly, and always explain them as follows.

If you don't have a dead rag on, you're fair game. If you complain about getting shot when not carrying a dead rag, it's your own fault. All players approaching you without a dead rag should be verbally challenged (or shot if you feel that is more appropriate given the circumstances). Surprise safety kills like this have been being performed for YEARS, and probably aren't going to change. I chew people out at every game for not having dead rags, and I'm hardly polite about it anymore.

Long story short, being killed like this is embarrasing and surprising, but it is something that can only be avoided by everyone adhering to the rules. If everyone carried a dead rag like they were supposed to (and told at every single briefing ever) this would never be an issue.

Lazy, stupid, ignorant, and/or arrogant players = non-issues become problem starters

History lesson: The reason we worded Rule #5 that way when it was written up years ago is this. A player from North Carolina (Peaches of SG-12, I believe) caused problems at every SC game he attended. He would approach live players (while not wearing a dead rag) and say he was returning to the parking lot to use a porta-potty, or looking for a lost mag, etc. As soon as he was behind them, he would knife kill as many as he could. This was obviously a dirty move. If you can get close enough to a player to kill them while not breaking the rules, more power to you. If you have to lie to get close to them, you are a coward.

[stuckmojo]

@superfrog: i have always interpreted our rules to state either wear a dead rag or raise your gun above your head or your hand above your head so that people can clearly see that your hit. vesper did none of this therefore by interpretation of the rules he is still in play. i myself have always made it a practice when im playing to shot the enemy until he does one of the following 3 situations stated above. i have been cussed out for it but the fact remains that the rules clearly state to bring a dead rag. as far as what you said about somebody saying not to do this before the game, im unaware of who said that and if it was dom i know from hearing hundreds of safety briefings from him, that he tells people to use a dead rag and if you dont have one then clearly raise your hand or gun above your head so people will know your dead. im sorry for the confusion. like i said this was my first aosc game i have ran and im taking it as a learning experience for future games.

[GREEN NINJA]

@ Green Ninja, hope you had a good time at Red Storm, and the game down here was run very well. I hope Steel Griffin Convoy will be a great game as well, looking foward to it.

Yeap we had a blast at RS as you can see in the vids on the picture thread for Red Storm but anyway, Im glad the game went so well for the most part, I knew stuck would do an excellent job admining and of course Dom has a ton of experience hosting and understands how to make things fun, so I knew it would turnout great. I heard the players themselves played very honorably and everyone had a safe, fun, battle.

As for the safety kill rules, Steveo is exactly on point. Paying attention in battle is a real world situation, just like ID 'ing enemies and friendlies. Get to comfortable or lazy you pay the price. Of course playing within rules is essential. What actually happened with Vesper i believe is certainly within the rules as long as your not Lying about your life status via dead rag or comment to other players. Thats why bringing a dead rag at this point is essential.

[SteevoLS]

Rule #1: ... Upon being hit you MUST loudly announce you are hit, and IMMEDIATLEY don a "dead rag" on top of your head.

Obviously it is acceptable to raise your hand or gun to indicate that you have been hit, but if you don't have a dead rag then what happens 5 minutes later when somebody else walks by is your own problem.

[Vesper]

To clear up the fog:

1) I was not hit, I was only flat out of ammo.
2) I was not hit, I did not yell hit, I did not raise my hand, nor did I raise my gun above my head.
3) I did not lie about my status; nobody stopped to ask if I was alive.

That being said, yes, what I did was sneaky, but taking a look at the situation - especially the said #3 - I could not resist myself. Mojo also made it VERY clear that I am walking around stealth killing people. Superfrog also yelled out loudly, "SHOOT HIM," but I still got through the rest of the game without meeting any resistance.

Yes, I always have a dead rag with me, and if people do not bring theirs, they should never complain about getting shot at repeatedly throughout the day. This is one of the basic requirements of every airsoft game.

Anyway, as Superfrog said, we talked over it, laughed about it. There is no hard feeling (at least on my side).

[superfrog]

I agree with what you are all saying. I guess there are small areas that will always cause a bit of contention and unfortunately the people like the situation described about peaches does cause the rest to have to react. Again, this whole thing about safety kills will always be a sticky situation as each occurrence is usually different and people interpret them differently. We still see people fuss when these happen as it isn't usually as black and white as it would seem.

Ultimately, the game probably would have still ended the same as the group that was guarding Dom came up from the rear in strength while the rest were trying to sort out what happened with vesper. Sadly, I was only able to watch it because I had just gotten shot and couldn't warn anyone, but again, Mojo did say loudly "shot anyone who doesn't have a dead rag on." They were warned about vesper without specifically calling attention to him.

Steveol nailed it when he wrote about how a person appears and their stance toward other players. There was a lot of confusion at the time as every person on the field would up at the base from every direction. As vesper also stated, he wasn't hit and had no reason to yell hit. (Well, he was mediced after the long shot I took to hit him, HEHE, and yes he had his dead rag. I saw it after the cliff run in.) He was simply out of ammo and he took the chance to walk around and stealth kill a lot of players. This is not an attack on vesper. I think he is a great player and I will play with him any day and we will have a blast. Hopefully next time on the same team.

But as usual me and my son and the friends we brought with us had a great time. I always enjoy playing with you South Carolina Boys. I actually met more great players and hopefully will get to play with you all again soon.

Mojo, kudos to you for being able to step in and do the great job you did. Communication was great with all the admins. Mojo kept us up on points and different missions to help us get back on track.

Please, don't read this discussion as a negative or bad issue because it is not by any means.

Not sure how do best deal with the dead rag issue, but on Sunday I stopped by a local game here in Asheville and as I was walking with GMAN we saw several situations where people were yelling because they kept getting shot with no dead rag, and he made them leave the field and go get one. Many said they lost them, but the result was the same. Go get one and don't come back on the field until you have one.

Oh, one other thing, I know I can be a prude at times but I am not a fan of some of the language that comes out of peoples mouth, it seems there is a lack of way to truely express themselves, but this game was great. I didn't cringe or have to say anything about it to any person on the field. Again, kudos to all the great players that came out to play last weekend.

[Vesper]

You're a great adversary, Superfrog. I believe I've run into you a couple times at Cane Creek as well.