Mission: DOUBLE CROSS

[Murphy]

So that being said: being an RPC can be very rewarding if you prepare for it and know what to expect. If you sign on as an RPC or HVT expecting to be on the frontline all day forget about it.

But if you just want to come to the event, maybe do some business and chat with friends (as well as help make a game great) then come as an RPC!

Most reps will let you onto the field for free if you're helping and who knows, maybe your backstory WILL call for being a spy or setting up a bomb. At the very least you know you're helping everyone else have a good time—something that should always be on your mind as a fair and fun player.

[Felix]

Let people read what the heck is going on, then play a good game with well informed people.

At CID III the only NPC on the field was only dealt with if you accepted the completely optional special missions, and EVERYTHING about it was spelled out in detail on a free map given to EVERYONE at registration, and players were told to read it if they wanted to participate in the special missions THREE TIMES during the briefing. Yet, somehow, two people still managed to flip out when they decided not to head any of that. Bottom line: It's impossible to make a game simple or straightforward enough for everyone. I am about one of the largest proponents of KISS there is, I say it all the time when people run game designs by me, BUT people also want to do something interesting.

But here in lies the problem. That was OPTIONAL.
This spy stuff WAS NOT OPTIONAL.

When you make a game, and you know this, there needs to be a main objective that everyone can do. There need to be a harder second objective, and finally the optional hard missions.

Edit: No Dom, your games are not KISS. They really aren't. They are close, but not simple. And OP SS I ran was KISS. Very simple, Could be explained in one or two sentences, and everyone had a blast.

[Murphy]

I hate to stroke Felix's ego (cuz we all know its already big enough), but I also thought the balancing at OP: Second Sun was done very well.

Alpha CO was having a rough time and had to leave due to sickness. Bravo actually finished the outlined objectives by mid day. Then—to balance the game—Felix began to issue nearly impossible objectives to Bravo. These were objectives where Alpha had a large upperhand either because of terrain or...well mostly terrain lol.

We made our best effort to achieve them anyway. I heard a lot of Alpha players saying they had a great time because they were able to basically shoot fish in a barrel while bravo blundered around trying to complete these crazy objectives.

I probably died 30 times trying to complete the last objective of the day, I had to walk to respawn after all 10 of my bleedouts. But it was totally worth it. Any death was my fault; my fault for making a bad move, moving up too far, or underestimating my enemy. I was never shot in the back or "balanced".

If anyone dies when its not their fault it sucks.

If a team has bad leadership: You're gonna have a bad time.
If a team has bad communication: You're gonna have a bad time.
If a team gets backstabbed: You're gonna have a bad time.
If a team gets misinformed: You're gonna have a bad time.
If a team is outnumbered: You're gonna have a bad time.
If players are cheating: You're gonna have a bad time.

But none of those things is the fault of any player, its the fault of an admin or command staff personel. If you show up to be in charge your number one priority has to be that everyone has fun, even if you don't.

[Dominum]

I just want to point out that the objectives never once changed during the day that I am aware of. The number of spies did, and the TNT did, but that's it... nothing else changed. I'm not sure where all this "the rules and objectives kept changing!" is coming from. I must be missing something? Please advise.

Anyway, as I was saying earlier, in the old days before RPCs, everyone always whined about how boring and straightforward every game was. It was incessant, and that's why RPCs became a major game mechanic and frequently used. Now, popular opinion is shifting back I suppose. If most players want less complex, more straightforward games with more static objectives, that is totally fine (frankly, I don't care. I enjoy both formats, and static objectives means I am less likely to be pressed into service as one of the few willing). You have to understand, we didn't just pull all of this out of our butt for the heck of it. The overall method of creating OPs changed because players demanded it. Now, that is going to happen in reverse. For the past few games, many people have said they want a return to static objectives and lower levels of gameplay "uncertainty", as it where. We will listen, just like we did last time. Ultimately, game design should be based on what the majority of players enjoy the most. We will adjust accordingly.

[Felix]

What other rules were there than spies and tnt?!

Theres a point where they ARE too boring, and there is a point where they are retardedly confusing.
Make it actually realistic..

[Dominum]

So that being said: being an RPC can be very rewarding if you prepare for it and know what to expect. If you sign on as an RPC or HVT expecting to be on the frontline all day forget about it.

But if you just want to come to the event, maybe do some business and chat with friends (as well as help make a game great) then come as an RPC!

Most reps will let you onto the field for free if you're helping and who knows, maybe your backstory WILL call for being a spy or setting up a bomb. At the very least you know you're helping everyone else have a good time—something that should always be on your mind as a fair and fun player.

Unfortunately, players that volunteer to help play a character often get run through the mud for their subjective decisions while attempting to make it fun for everyone. This further decreases the volunteer pool.

[Dominum]

What other rules were there than spies and tnt?!

Theres a point where they ARE too boring, and there is a point where they are retardedly confusing.
Make it actually realistic..

Well, you showed up several hours after the game started...

There's a point when what is too boring? NPCs? They're on the other end of the spectrum.

Making it "realistic" would add far, far more complexity... beyond retarded. It certainly wouldn't be boring though.

[Felix]

Exactly, and the two rules that were explained to me were the Spies and the TNT, both which were changed. Everything else was standard by the sounds of it.

Yes, Henry, NPC CAN be boring as the way YOU explained it, People WHINED that the games with these characters were too boring because they were bland and had no real objective behind it. Now they are pumped up with too many rules and things to attempt an objective behind it (which is retarded).

Realistic and simple, Henry, let me preach it LOUDD.
It is not far, far more complex, because its something I do every time I ever be a HVT. You gauge how things are and you adapt to the situation, simple enough right? And I'll tell you right now, shooting yourself in the foot is NOT gauging the environment and adapting, unless you are REALLY fighting against Bravo in this situation.

[Dominum]

I hate to stroke Felix's ego (cuz we all know its already big enough), but I also thought the balancing at OP: Second Sun was done very well.

Alpha CO was having a rough time and had to leave due to sickness. Bravo actually finished the outlined objectives by mid day. Then—to balance the game—Felix began to issue nearly impossible objectives to Bravo. These were objectives where Alpha had a large upperhand either because of terrain or...well mostly terrain lol.

We made our best effort to achieve them anyway. I heard a lot of Alpha players saying they had a great time because they were able to basically shoot fish in a barrel while bravo blundered around trying to complete these crazy objectives.

I probably died 30 times trying to complete the last objective of the day, I had to walk to respawn after all 10 of my bleedouts. But it was totally worth it. Any death was my fault; my fault for making a bad move, moving up too far, or underestimating my enemy. I was never shot in the back or "balanced".

If anyone dies when its not their fault it sucks.

If a team has bad leadership: You're gonna have a bad time.
If a team has bad communication: You're gonna have a bad time.
If a team gets backstabbed: You're gonna have a bad time.
If a team gets misinformed: You're gonna have a bad time.
If a team is outnumbered: You're gonna have a bad time.
If players are cheating: You're gonna have a bad time.

But none of those things is the fault of any player, its the fault of an admin or command staff personel. If you show up to be in charge your number one priority has to be that everyone has fun, even if you don't.

That sounds like another example that proves my point about balancing mid game, and adding handicaps to prevent overly lopsided gameplay. It was done in a different way, but it was done nonetheless. Regardless, I think you understand why handicaps must sometimes be given by an admin, and contingencies must be used. I think what you took issue with was how they were empoyed at this particular game, and I agree with you. Also, I think that making the adjustments in light of the playerbases wishes, and implementing your previosu suggestions will help to fix this.

[Bishop]

Thanks Dom. I appreciate being willing to change things based upon criticism. Please understand that the attitude of my post's wasn't geared towards insulting. I was trying to use the strongest language available to me in order to get the point I felt needed to be addressed recognized. Murphy is much better at stating the things in a more polite way.

[Dominum]

Exactly, and the two rules that were explained to me were the Spies and the TNT, both which were changed. Everything else was standard by the sounds of it.

Yes, Henry, NPC CAN be boring as the way YOU explained it, People WHINED that the games with these characters were too boring because they were bland and had no real objective behind it. Now they are pumped up with too many rules and things to attempt an objective behind it (which is retarded).

Realistic and simple, Henry, let me preach it LOUDD.
It is not far, far more complex, because its something I do every time I ever be a HVT. You gauge how things are and you adapt to the situation, simple enough right? And I'll tell you right now, shooting yourself in the foot is NOT gauging the environment and adapting, unless you are REALLY fighting against Bravo in this situation.

The spy rules didn't change.

I think we all agree about your "too pumped up" point though.

He shot himself in the foot because he had to go back to the parking lot for ammo and water, as did the two that shot eachother. Either way they were going to the parking lot... why not have fun with it? Woopdy frikin doo. Yes, you have done a lot of role playing back in the day, and you made a lot of judgement calls about what you could do in game to mix things up and you had the best of intentions. However, JUST as many people, if not more, pitched fits about the stuff you did in the AAR. It seems that is inevitable.

[Felix]

They did, as I was told. It went from 4 spies to 2, and the 2 were not needed to move the bomb, and they both started with Alpha, and they both needed to be captured for whatever reason by Bravo.

I haven't seen anything about anything mechanics wise I did in any AAR of a game I truly put my name on.
So.. three of the NPCs that were needed for a mechanic, decided they all wanted to go back to the parking lot mid game?

[Dominum]

They did, as I was told. It went from 4 spies to 2, and the 2 were not needed to move the bomb, and they both started with Alpha, and they both needed to be captured for whatever reason by Bravo.

I haven't seen anything about anything mechanics wise I did in any AAR of a game I truly put my name on.
So.. three of the NPCs that were needed for a mechanic, decided they all wanted to go back to the parking lot mid game?

The numbers were cut and they had a different start point.
Go read the AARs from games like BW that you were a RPC in.
They stated their reasons previously in this thread. No, they weren't needed, two were needed and they had 5 total. Taking them to task for a bit of a goof to head back to the parking lot is pretty wild coming from you. I'm not going to quote pages and pages of old AARs, but acting like you can be an NPC and not piss people off is something you should already be well versed in. You were awfuly defensive when a lot more people called your actions as an NPC into question, but you seem to be standing by to throw them under the bus as NPCs for a totally irrelivant stunt that had absolutely no effect on the outcome of the game and was ultimately inconsequential.

[Mr. Marauder]

So.. three of the NPCs that were needed for a mechanic, decided they all wanted to go back to the parking lot mid game?

Of the 5 spies on the field, 3 needed to go to the parking lot to re-hydrate, ammo up, and get back on the field. Did Bravo lose their current objective because of this? Nope.

[Dominum]

Actually, there were at least 8 spies on the field, 5 being in Bravo's possesion at the time, one in Alpha's.

Thanks Dom. I appreciate being willing to change things based upon criticism. Please understand that the attitude of my post's wasn't geared towards insulting. I was trying to use the strongest language available to me in order to get the point I felt needed to be addressed recognized. Murphy is much better at stating the things in a more polite way.

I took no offense, this is for AARs. If some people didn't like the game, we need to find out why so we can make it better next time. We've been working for years to come up with the perfect formula for games, and maybe this will get us one step closer. Every game is an experiment in game mechanics. Over the past few months, we have found that straying too far from the old formula in an effort to please those that want more complexity and less static game mechanics has made it so that the other side of the isle is unhappy. We need to correct it so that the most people have the most fun at the most games possible. Your feedback helps make that happen. When I used to host almost every game, it was a little easier to employ suggestions rapidly, but it also meant things got stale simply due to having one perspective at the drawing board. Newer Reps hosting most of the games, and more games hosted by more people, means that different perspectives and ideas are being brought to bear. This is great in the sense that stagnation is less likely. However, it also means that they have to learn the trade. They have to try to run a certain game a certain way and fail, just like everyone else who has hosted large games. Then they have to figure out why, and make it better. I've never run a perfect game, but let me tell you, some of the games I used to run were noticeably bad. I'd like to think I'm improved, and will continue to. The same goes for Cleric, but he's earlier along in the process. The great thing about it is that at the end of the day, we have players that will honestly explain what they disliked, and more importantly, try to help us figure out how to make it better; and we have Reps who will take it to heart and try their hardest to work from that feedback to do it better next time.