Mission: DOUBLE CROSS

[watchman1513]

Grill Sergeant for one. I know he turned a few times other than, as I mentioned, when he turned on my group that was watching him. Then there is Marauder shooting Hoss. And yes, Maruader shooting Hoss is turning on the team because supposedly we are on the same side.

[Dominum]

Yes Felix, this thread is ridiculous. I think I need to ban myself for staying up until two just to discuss this game. Thanks to all for voicing their concerns and letting us know what we need to change to make games better for you all. Our purpose is to respond to the will of the players, and that's precisely what we'll do... tomorrow. I'm going to bed

[Felix]

Yes Felix, this thread is ridiculous. I think I need to ban myself for staying up until two just to discuss this game. Thanks to all for voicing their concerns and letting us know what we need to change to make games better for you all. Our purpose is to respond to the will of the players, and that's precisely what we'll do... tomorrow. I'm going to bed

Please do, might better airsoft for all..

[Murphy]

I think if I had gone into this game under the assumption that the spies were a faction/objective type HVT equivalent to BW I would have done much better. They were effectively a third faction.

I think its time people stepped back and looked at something. Bravo's failure was in great part my fault. I volunteered as CO (because I wanted dynamite), but I did not realize I was expected to lead and direct a game full of complicated objectives. Anyone saying its not complicated...I'm sorry you're just wrong. It certainly wasn't incomprehensible, but it WAS complicated.

Had I known all the rules ahead of time and thought some things out I wouldn't have made the blunder of leaving objectives basically entirely undefended. So to Bravo: I'm sorry about that.

[CLERIC]

As I slowly read through your post, I may edit this further. But I will say one thing. I was working under the impression that reps recieve part of the money from the game they host. Therefore, you are getting paid to put on a game meaning it has responsibilities.

As for the "butt Hurt" Chairsofter comment...

The AOSC lost a team due to this game, so it isn't being butt hurt, but genuine frustration at some things the player's don't particularly like.

Yes we only recieve a small portion from the games , usally just enough to cover gas, food, and props, and maybe earn $20 or so profit, All the while we the host does all the work, and most field owners do nothing, but collect money. Which is usally a 80% to field owner and 20% to host. But in some cases (greedy field owners) get 90%.So you tell me does that sound like getting PAID???????? SQA's field owners are best case scenario, they actually do care and help with things though.


And Im sorry that we "lost" a team, but how many teams or people have we lost and dont hear about it, for whatever reason? My point is this , I dont like losing anybody for any reason ,but it does happen and my self included is not perfect and above reproch. Even Gold team as much as they are good people, have people who dont like them for various reasons.. So it happens, I dont like it. And from here on out I will do my best to fix my problems as far as a game host. WHat more would you like me to do?? Quit hosting ? quit being a admin? Quit playing??

[CLERIC]

No, but he is still being paid enough to fund his airsoft stuff.

Good point.
So should we stop people from running games who make AARs as long as this that have just as many hard feelings?

FUND MY AIRSOFT STUFF????? What? really? My fundings come from me working my ass off at a job. Not from hosting games.

[Iam_Hoss]

something about a loin cloth.

Got something against not wearing a shirt?

Well when you have awesome abs like me it can cause angst to others as they can never look as good shirtless.

Yeah I bet it was just being a little trigger happy and jittery to cause him to shoot us.

[Felix]

No, but he is still being paid enough to fund his airsoft stuff.

Good point.
So should we stop people from running games who make AARs as long as this that have just as many hard feelings?

I just want legitement reasons as to why you are right. And to be honest, I have not seen any.

[Murphy]

Cleric I think you're taking some of these things too close to the heart. A lot of the complaints I see are complaints that you can find in a lot of After Action threads. No one is trying to pick on you, they're pointing out things they saw as flaws in the game mechanics.

Everyone's got someone who doesn't like them. If you're gonna call Gold Team out on it I'd be happy to step up to the plate and address that stuff point by point, and more importantly how we are striving to fix that stuff, but this thread is about Double Cross. Not us, and not you.

As players and as people we strive to make sure everyone has fun, not just us. I hope that all other players, and especially reps feel the same way. Dom pointed out to me that we (especially me) show up with a lot of criticism after each game. I guess that's just what happens when you put a bunch of pessimists on a team together. We're trying to be a little nicer in our delivery but I hope that at least some of our points are good and taken to heart.

I feel like Dom really heard me out when we chatted after the game and I hope that as a rep you'll be able to see the meaningful parts of this thread and put them to use (and more importantly just put a blind eye to the arguments and complaints.)

[CLERIC]

Yes Murphy , you are right, I took somethings to heart , but I will take everything that has been said in this thread and try my best to correct them so that in future games they w at least will be run better,by me .

I never ment to call out Gold team, just using them as an example, since the person I was talking to, is a member. Every team , and most players have some one who dis likes them for various reasons. So is life.

and yes we will continue to talk and I will improve my next games, with your help and anyone else that wishes to help me . I am new to hosting so I will make many mistakes along this road . I just hope you guys as players will put up with me long enough to improve. lol

[Wolfy]

hey, I'm fine and I understand it was a mistake. At the time I was just juggling trying to get ammo into my gun and avoiding the sand of the trenches as much as possible. Mistakes happen.

So there seems to be a lot of discussion/argument about who won, who deserved to win, etc etc...

I was "CO" for Bravo. I play back and forth between Alpha and Bravo so I hope no one thinks I'm biased Bravo. Honestly I would have changed to alpha had I had time to check around and see that a few more Bravo had showed up, but unfortunately Gold Team had to run all of the morning operations due to leadership and admin being busy and/or late.

I don't care who officially won or lost, I had an overall good time. I show up to shoot people and chat with old friends; of that I had plenty.

Had everyone been privy to the rules beforehand I think the game would've run a lot smoother; like Dom said.

My overarching complaint is this: as Bravo I feel we were being punished for winning during the beginning of the day. Spies were shooting us and themselves in order to hinder out efforts. But I did not hear any accounts of the spies on Alpha doing anything similar. Some one is going do win for the day, and I do not think it should be up to admin to fluctuate or control how that happens.

I think Bravo kind of pooped out at lunch due to all the confusion over comms, spies, the rules applying to spies, etc etc. Nothing else needs to be said about it or argued.

I know a lot of players on the field were new to the AOSC and to SQA so I hope all of you guys had a good time and plan to come back to future games; at this field or on others.

Also wanted to apologize for shooting wolfie while she was dead maybe 3 times :S colorblindprobz.

[Wolfy]

But Understand , I do this for free , and I have a full time job and full time family-wife,kids,ect. And various other things that require my Attention. Write a game scenario is easy, but writing how the game should flow ,and building and creating game props, can get a little hard and time consuming.

You dont do this for free, you are paid too.

But If anyone would like to take a shot at running a game , please feel free. Contact me and I will do my best to make it happen.

Oooh Oooh Pick me!

But why complain and say it was my fault or any game admins fault if a ROLE Player chooses to play their character a certain way.They are not my puppetes, that I pull their strings to "make them do something". They do it on their own accord.

Because you put them in the RP position, so you do have EVERY BIT OF SAY of what they can and cannot do.

But Remember what this game was all about- DOUBLECROSS- double agent spies. AND I said people will get BUTT HURT at this game . Looks like I was being a little Profetical , but that is becuse there is too many chairsofters- people who like to sit back and whine and complain and do nothingto try and change the situations,but sit back and cause problems while everyone else does all the hard work.and when the good times come' they want to be a prt of the celebration. WHere I come from, they call those people CHEERLEADERS !!

Saying before the game starts that people are going to have a bad time, means the game is going to be a bad time.. And no one here was a chair softer, because those are people who sit on these forums and dont come to games. And since the people who were complaining were veterans of more ops than you have been to, and who had legitment complains, I dont see them as cheerleaders.

Where I come from, we call people like you 'full of themselves'
And please take offense to that, because the people you called Cheerleaders took offense to it as well, and are my friends.

Getting paid enough to cover your costs is not exactly the same thing as a job.

The only reason you haven't been asked to run a scenario again recently is because of the multiple times you have flipped out and screamed obscenities at people in the middle of games for one reason or another, among other issues.

Being honest here, I wouldn't go to one of his games. Also, this thread has gotten way too ridiculous, and way too serious regarding the running of all of AOSC over just ONE game. It IS just a game however, and while yeah, it sucks to feel cheated, but I don't see how anyone was actually cheated. Numbers went down because Bravo's pride got hurt when they didn't immediately win before lunch, numbers were evened out, the game resumed from the same spot. Bravo failed to hold onto their objective, they failed to overrun Alpha on the hill, they failed to complete the mission and failed to retrieve the third objective. It has nothing to do with rule changes, it has nothing to do with the spies. It has everything to do with the players who were and weren't there. It has everything to do with how the people played and the choices each player individually made. Alpha was vulnerable on Rocky Top, yet Bravo never took the point and never recovered the objective.

As for Bravo players complaining about having to wait forever to move objectives due to the spies and their actions, I don't understand why those players didn't take small recon teams to see if all of Alpha was on the hill/on the road. If you had a bad, boring time, it's your own fault.

[TokenTech89]

Holy cow, I get off the forum for 1 night and blam!!

ANyway, it was a great game. Tolds the end, I talked with Dom because I had recalled a ruling about spawning near HQ and the other team takes it, we had to discuss the ruling and had to move for the one time.

What matters is that you had a great time. Who should care if one team won or not. You came out there to shoot people and have fun doing that. You came to play with friends from all over SC and to have friendly rivalries play out.

[uboat4]

Holy cow, I get off the forum for 1 night and blam!!

ANyway, it was a great game. Tolds the end, I talked with Dom because I had recalled a ruling about spawning near HQ and the other team takes it, we had to discuss the ruling and had to move for the one time.

What matters is that you had a great time. Who should care if one team won or not. You came out there to shoot people and have fun doing that. You came to play with friends from all over SC and to have friendly rivalries play out.

BAM, that's what I say. It was fun. Cleric tried some new things, he's new to hosting and I had a blast. Good thing overall. I'll go to another one of clerics games. I know I said different on the field but after thinking it through I gotta say that with all the trouble of setting up a game, I think he did fine... I know I've been to hella worse and I certainly couldn't have done it like that. Bravo cleric and everyone who's a good sport about it. And nice job with that TNT in the trenches. Haha

[Jeremy314]

I'd just like to say, I really like this field. I love the SQA staff, and Gold team are great guys. I will come out for more games at SQA, AOSC or not. But I will only come to AOSC games for the social experience of talking with friends and shooting people. Objectives other than base control be damned because they don't seem to mean anything.

We had 6/7 (85.71%) of all the objectives before lunch. The last thing we needed was the final nuke. Bravo worked our behinds off to get the objectives, and our commanding officer sacrificed part of his tooth to get us in a position to get a large number of those objectives from the beginning. I can't say I did much, because my gun went down with a bad motor connection, but I helped get spies, a nuke, and the crate back to the Bravo HQ before I made the final hike to fix my gun.

I have nothing against Cleric, and I'll give him some slack because hosting a game is a lot, especially when you have a real life that demands a lot of your time. My biggest problem with the game was the briefing. The first part about the Lion Claws game.. not needed at a game safety briefing. It should have been saved for the forums, or during lunch. It seemed as half of the briefing was about the Lion Claws game. Then when we got to the actual game briefing, it seemed like a lot of the rules were just made up on the spot, things were very on the fly, and the RPCs didn't have much in the way of restrictions on what they could and couldn't do. They did exactly what IV thought they would do, and basically how we thought they would do it. And it's frustrating to have to take 45 minutes to move 300 yards in friendly controlled territory because of the game mechanic, and we didn't have every single bravo player there either as some people are assuming/making it seem like. It was enough to help defend the objectives we had if we came under enemy attack. Honestly, that game mechanic is a bit old and should get hashed out more when it is used. I liked OP:Phantom Hawk where we could have our "captures" remove their magazines, clear their chambers, and turn off their radios. That wouldn't have been competely effective here, but it would have cut down on the "I shot myself." or the "Imma shoot you while we're just walking." From what I saw, we treated them well, used them to help carry the crate but usually one at the time to keep them busy, but as "known spies" they had a gun pointed at them as often as we could just because of their role. Nugget and Gerbilizer were great when I was escorting them, Nugget was the best of them all from what I saw and have read. He tried to be sneaky and heal alphas when he thought he could get away with it, but he never randomly turned around and shot at us without provocation.

And to those people that say "Bravo got their pride hurt." or "They're just a bunch of chairsofters." you are entitled to your opinion, but IV didn't leave because of either of those reasons. We drove 3 hours for what was supposed to be a good game at a great field. Only half of that was correct. We can drive 2 hours to the Swamp almost any weekend and have a great game, or we can drive 3 hours to the Airsoft Reservation in Fayetteville, NC and play with Recondo and get our rears handed to us and still have fun and a well organized, well run game, or we can drive 35-45 minutes to Adventure Beach, for a great field, poorly run game, and see the few friends we have that go to ABA. But instead we decided to spend time at AOSC games, and we've had really bad experiences at the last few we've been to.

Also I'm glad that loosing a team means so little to the AOSC reps, they they push it aside and haven't made any public attempts to try and resolve the situation and get them back. Every day the AOSC is becoming more like the foregone SCAA, and that's something I never thought would happen, honestly. But hey, as I said I'm entitled to my opinion as much as you are entitled to yours.