VFC m16a3 upgrades

[berbinator]

Ok, so i'm looking to upgrade my VFC m16 into more of a quasi battle rifle with a bit better reach. Currently my rifle is dead stock shooting ~430 FPS with .20 and ~380 FPS with .25s.

Goals: FPS 430 < velocity < 460
maximum possible accuracy

I'm not really looking for high speed, so that's a trade off i'm willing to make.
So far i'm thinking

Tightbore barrel (6.03 or 6.02, PDI stainless Steel if they have that size)
new hopup kit (no ideas there, I've been out of the upgrade scene so long i have no idea what's good)
possible bore up cylinder?
I'm assuming i'll probably need to upgrade spring/gearset/motor/piston if i bore up the cylinder

Any brand suggestions, additions/deletions/suggestions would be appreciated

[Stomper87]

You don't need bore up unless your barrel length is over 600mm. As for upgrades, you'll just need a new spring, piston, and AOE corrected. You could also take out that "self shimming" crap on the spry gear, and re shim it. Go for a steel 6.03 or 6.05 inner barrel, and an R hop or ER hop

[berbinator]

So to clarify your statement, you suggest an R hopup bucking by itself? no hopup assembly? also what about the hopup nub?

Are VFC gearsets/motors robust enough to support operating a more powerful spring/piston combo in their stock configuration?

As to a good piston replacement what are some good suggestions for a high quality replacement?

[Stomper87]

So to clarify your statement, you suggest an R hopup bucking by itself? no hopup assembly? also what about the hopup nub?

Are VFC gearsets/motors robust enough to support operating a more powerful spring/piston combo in their stock configuration?

As to a good piston replacement what are some good suggestions for a high quality replacement?

An R hop isn't a bucking. It's a patch that sits between your bucking and barrel, so it makes direct contact with the bb. Just have someone like Starfolder (if he's accepting work right now) to install one for $40. You'll still use most of the stock parts in your hop up, except the nub.

Yes, it's strong enough, but you'll have to correct your AoE. You could cut out a mousepad or buy Sorbo for $5.

I personally hate VFC stock pistons, so I'd change it out with an SHS blue 14 steel teeth for $9. If you want to spend a little more, you could buy a Lonex red for $22, but that doesn't seem necessary for this build

[Star_folder]

I'm with Stomper on the piston, if you're going to open it up, replace the piston with something that won't break.

And I would suggest sticking with the fps you have now unless you are wanting to turn the M16 into a DMR. If you do go with a hop up, you'll probably see a 10-20fps increase.

[Dominum]

I agree with most of what has already been said, just going to add a bit. No need for ER hop, nothing wrong with the self shimming spring on the top of the spur gear, yes everything else in there is fine as long as you do what they have already said to do, get a MOSFET, and don't go over 400 FPS w/.25g or you will be stuck with semi auto only and a 100ft MED (DMR, not a battle rifle).

[slickridley]

I have one, my mods are
Rhop, AOE fix (used promy piston/promy pom), reshimmed, m130, tuned for .28's, better wiring/deans, a brick of a lipo

[Star_folder]

maximum possible accuracy

No need for ER hop

These are conflicting comments. Maximum possible accuracy is aided by an ER-hop. Furthering that would be an LRB, which would be effectively impossible with an M16.

The self shimming gears are fine for the stock spring, but shimmed are still better, a stronger spring should have stronger gears.

[berbinator]

Hmm so slickridley has an Rhop, Star folder recommends using one, and Domm says no.... Dom could you please care to clarify why you believe that? I'm obviously not saying i believe one or the other, I don't know and i'm getting two different answers thats all.

[slickridley]

I didn't say my build was perfect, just that it works for me

[Dominum]

and an R hop or ER hop

I responded:

No need for ER hop

I never said not to Rhop it, I said it wasn't necessary to ER hop it (unless it's a DMR with heavier weight BBs, then I'll change my tune).

We are all still unsure of what you want because you said you want a battle rifle (so we assume maximum range while still having full auto) but then you stated an FPS that is in the lower end of the DMR range (which is semi only). Once you decide on which side of that line you want to go we can give you more specific advice. If you opt to go higher FPS with heavier weight BBs then an ER hop is good, if not then it's not necessary IMO and you should Rhop it instead. Either way I don't think he needs to change the gearset until it breaks, VFC gears are pretty strong, and I'm still assuming he's going with his stock spring (which we'd all recommend I think, unless you want to step it way up as a DMR).

[berbinator]

Ah i see, thanks for clarification, now my turn to clarify.

I guess the reason for the ambiguity and my shyness of bandying about the DMR label is my understanding that any DMR build worth it's salt is for all intents and purposes a complete rebuild and generally a significant investment. Hence, I'm not naively assuming i can swap some parts and presto DMR.

While I hardly ever use full auto (except when my hop-up has never been set ) I'm hesitant to push my build into semi-only territory. Basically I want to push FPS limit to just barely below semi auto while using .25s.

On a tangent to this discussion is my theory that mods to improve accuracy and range have a point of diminishing returns on an investment/improvement curve which is why i'm trying to make most of the upgrades that will account for a large portion of the range and accuracy improvement without tipping the scale into the more costly and less beneficial modifications. Does that make any sense to anyone except for me? lol

[Frost]

The Technical definition of a DMR is an airsoft rifle that shoots 400+ fps with .25s. Beyond that is peoples preference. In either an Psuedo DMR (sub 400 fps w/ .25s) or a DMR I would recommend an ER hop. The er hop lifts heavier bb's more efficiently. I have a Psuedo DMR and run and ER hop w/ .32 gram bbs. The self shimming on a VFC is okay but a good shim job done right is much better and will help the durability of the gearbox. I definitely agree on everything Star_folder said (By the way star_folder has a great reputation building very nice, far shooting, dmrs and psuedo dmrs). So I would really consider his advice. If I were you and trying to build a Pseudo Dmr on a budget I would get an shs blue 15 tooth metal piston or a lonex red, ER hop, AOE w/ sorbo and shim it myself, install a mosfet and wire to deans. I would keep the spring you have now if you are getting 381 fps. If I had left over money I would look into getting a 6.05 PDI Barrel. If you Choose to go the DMR route I would still do all the same things, but obviously change the spring to a m150+. All this assuming it is within your intended budget.

[Dominum]

So... it sounds like what you really want is not a DMR, but a pseudo-DMR (higher FPS [50' MED instead of 20' MED] but still full-auto capable battle rifle. Frankly you don't need to spend a lot of money at all, or change the spring. Obviously you'll need to do proper compression mods (teflon the cylinder head, Oring airnozzle if you want to squeeze out a little better compression and consistency [but that shouldn't make a huge difference], and a thicker Oring or Xring on your piston head [or at least clean and stretch the one you have]). Sorbo the cylinder head and correct the AoE and either run this piston until it breaks (depending on the ROF you're running and the amount of torque during the initial pickup of the back tooth it may very well last a long time with proper AoE) or go ahead and put in one of the better ones mentioned. You can radius the shell if you want, but it isn't necessary with this build. Install a MOSFET, and use a battery that provides the ROF you want. There are a number of suitable hopup/barrel upgrades as mentioned, a rotary chamber is also superior but the one piece POM one it has now is not bad. The law of diminishing returns is just that, a law. Even airsoft techs can't violate it ;P. Some of the things that are diminished by said law in this particular case, and therefore should be less of a focus are the barrel, hopup chamber, and airnozzle. My guess is that since you where budgeting for a rebuild you probably have enough to do it all though. Remember that a tighter bore gives you a tiny bit more FPS which you really don't need out of this build, so I'd recommend a quality SS 6.03 or higher TBB if you want to get one.