R-hop experiences

[jsts ghost]

Forget trying to make it myself, but I guess I need to try since it is hard to get it done for me. Hahah

[captainkirk05]

I'm really starting to think there are many other factors that go into making the r-hop seem effective. One may be people had crappy nubs and buckings before, dirty barrels, light bb's, or even placebo effect. I have a range finder I use for all my testing. I may have gained 5 ft effective range between all the r-hops I've installed and the stock 2gx bucking in my KWA sr12. Max range is about 270 ft, where if you make it shower you can hit targets. Flat flight range is about 155 ft (distance before the "hump" or before the "drop", depending on how the hop up is cranked). About 210 ft is where your accuracy starts diminishing. Almost exactly like the stock bucking and nub. Where the r-hop has given me improvement is the accuracy. The stock bucking was off center, making shots go far left. Since you sand the patches, I was able to correct the direction with the groove. I now have 1 ft groupings in full auto at 150 ft with .28's, shooting center of sights as well. Also the patch will let me lift heavier bb's than the stock bucking, which could be a main factor in extended range. But as for the same weight bb going farther, I haven't seen it, and I haven't had the resources to test heavier bb's either. Another thing that *might* be beneficial from the ir-hop I have is it's cold weather performance. We will just have to see when January rolls around.

[SteevoLS]

the patch will let me lift heavier bb's than the stock bucking, which could be a main factor in extended range

^ THIS THIS THIS

Some people think they can take a M120 setup and get 300+ feet out of it simply by adding an R-hop. You see major range improvements when running heavier BBs with stronger springs, as you can get stronger and more consistent backspin applied.

[vanevery]

I have a range finder I use for all my testing. I may have gained 5 ft effective range between all the r-hops I've installed and the stock 2gx bucking in my KWA sr12. Max range is about 270 ft, where if you make it shower you can hit targets. Flat flight range is about 155 ft

Here is my range finder:






Here is my proving ground:




Here are my babies:



To date,
I am the only one I have seen who has measured off 100 yards and can hit a target.
No R-hop
No flat-hop
No External air tank.
Videos and shooting challenge to come.

[Dominum]

If you're the only one you have seen it must be because you haven't seen anyone. I've been building SWSs and DMRs that consistently hit targets at 300ft long before flat hop and R hop were in vogue in SC, and I'm not the only one. There are several people who were doing it before I was, and others who've done it since.

I'm not trying to detract from your results, just don't get the idea that they are unique or that you are the only one that can do it. That's preposterous. (Not sure what the air tank thing is about)

[SteevoLS]

Air tank = P*

[vanevery]

If you're the only one you have seen it must be because you haven't seen anyone. I've been building SWSs and DMRs that consistently hit targets at 300ft long before flat hop and R hop were in vogue in SC, and I'm not the only one. There are several people who were doing it before I was, and others who've done it since.

I'm not trying to detract from your results, just don't get the idea that they are unique or that you are the only one that can do it. That's preposterous. (Not sure what the air tank thing is about)

You are correct.
My statement intended no arrogance nor ignorance.
I in fact simply have not seen it.
No doubt it can be done and has been done for a long time.
Accuracy at 100 yards is another equation.
M4's with m120 springs and 363mm inner barrels can point to the sky and lob bb's 100 yards.

When you actually measure 100 yards out, it is not such an intimidating distance.
It is far, for sure. It just proves doable when you measure it off and see it as opposed to imagining how far it is.
My biggest problem to date shooting long range is wind, even the slightest of breeze, specifically in the target area.
I find that past 50 yards, the wind / breeze tosses .30's around and pushes them off the target as the bb reaches within 5 yards of the target. I find similar results happen to .40's at 70 yards, at around 5-10 yards from target.
Which ever way the wind / breeze is blowing, that is where the bb's are going in the target area.
The field I test my guns at is wide open.
There is some field netting about 20-25 yards to one side of the target and runs about 30 yards + of the length of my firing lane. You may think that would assist in breaking up the wind at my target, but I find it has no effect.
It is the moments the wind is calm that I can shoot a firing sequence consisting of ten straight shots that I consider as actual data.
Yes, I do fire into the wind as well and work with the wind and learn all I can in doing so.
When you are putting your gun through its paces and using heavy ammo, there comes a point where you have to weigh the cost of the ammo vs the possibility of wasting ammo.
Sometimes its just better to wait a few seconds and let the wind die down, then continue testing.

At Fulda a couple of years ago, some one was shooting Full-Auto from Rex to Bravo and shot me out in the process. I was at Bravo and there was a tape line of bb's flying past me from that same gun. This was at the game's start, in the first few seconds. I do not know how far the actual distance is between the two Bases, and I have no idea whose gun it was or what model gun. I simply have not seen a gun in any game shoot that far, previously or since.
I have also never seen anyone else measure off 100 yards and hit a target, consistently or at all.

I am still in the testing phase of my long gun.
I know what I got with what I have tested so far, which is why I made the claim.
I have a few more inner barrels to test and a few more various weights of bb's to test.
At that point I will make a video and take it from there.
The video will come after Fulda.

The reference to the external air tank is the theoretical ability to push bb's farther down range than a gun with an internal power source - gas or electric.
I also absolutely intend to give the Flat-hop and R-hop a go here soon.
Just have a lot on my plate at the moment and am trying to finish up projects and also testing on a multiple of drop in buckings I have and test them in more than one gun.

[Dominum]

I understand your meaning now, but usually when people say that it means they think no one else can do it. The claim that an HPA powered airsoft gun vs an AEG or bolt action SWS with all other things being equal has a greater range I don't believe holds much water.

I personally have not found wind to be a significant factor in actual field use, as most of the engagements I have been in occured with large amounts of trees or buildings positioned so as to block the wind. I have almost always used Madbull .40s in my high FPS guns, and most of them have had Firefly hard type buckings and nubs. I measured various distances including 300 ft with some of them and they all had pretty good groupings. Probably the one with the best accuracy was a VSR10 build that Vanquish started and I finished a few years ago with all top of the line Laylax parts and an M170, etc. I have never really been one to spend much time testing outside of actual game play, and I rarely take pics or vids so I don't have very much controlled data to contribute to a quantifiable discussion on the effectiveness of various hopups unfortunately. Maybe next time I do a high FPS build I will get some numbers in controlled settings.

The barrel testing will be interesting to see, and I appreciate that you are going to record it for everyone, there is little in the way of controlled tests on them because it is expensive and time consuming to do so.

[captainkirk05]

I did a custom r-hop mod on my JG M4 s-sytem today. Cut up the silicon tubing and used leftover bits of m-nubs. Surprisingly I actually got improved results. Most likely because the stock bucking was crap anyways. Results with a guarder sp85 spring chono'ing at about 265 fps (no hop), are as follows, measured with a laser range finder:
With 0.20g bb: 159 ft max range (75 % accuracy on human size target). With 0.25g bb: 171 ft max range. At 0.28g the range begins decreasing.

So here is a thought: 0.25g bb's were optimal for a 265 fps w/.20g gun (didn't expect that). I am going to assume that bb weight is a big factor in why my sr12 is not seeing huge range improvements. If my JG can do that, I probably need to use above 0.30g to get that improved range in a ~400 fps w/0.20g gun like my sr12. Max range with the sr12 is currently ~270 ft w/0.28g. I'll grab some heavy rounds in the future and see what they do.

[vanevery]

R-hop / Flat-hop...... BB weight.
Do both these mods accommodate heavy ammo such as .36's and up?
Is there a point of diminishing return with using heavy ammo with these mods?

[SteevoLS]

It seems like everyone has forgotten that the entire purpose of these hopup mods is to effectively hop heavy BBs.

the patch will let me lift heavier bb's than the stock bucking, which could be a main factor in extended range

Some people think they can take a M120 setup and get 300+ feet out of it simply by adding an R-hop. You see major range improvements when running heavier BBs with stronger springs, as you can get stronger and more consistent backspin applied.

[vanevery]

Well that has probably got lost on me as well.
Most of the text I have read concerning both these mods is players using .25's.

Consider also one man's definition of heavy bb's is not the same as another.
I do not really consider .30's as heavy bb's any more as they have become the mainstay of my ammo.
I consider .30's as I once considered .20's, that is for field play mind you, not CQB.
I guess I consider .36's now as the entry level to truly heavy ammo.

So is that a yes for both the R-hop and Flat-hop accommodating heavy ammo?

[Bishop]

Considering that rhop is in most dmr's yes. They will handle higher bbs extremely well. That's the entire point of using those mods.

[captainkirk05]

I just tested out some 0.36g bb's in my ~400 fps r-hop sr12. It is VERY easy to overhop them, so yes, the r-hop does its dirt in lifting heavy bb's. They fly straighter and farther than lighter bb's, at the expense of speed getting to target. I actually don't like how slow they fly in my 400 fps stock build, so I'll lay off of them and stick with lighter bb's giving less range but quicker speed to target.

[Star_folder]

In lower fps, heavier bbs are only good for accuracy and range. While they won't fly as fast as lighter weight bbs will. However, when you start to increase the fps, the heavier bbs start to shine, because they begin to fly faster than lighter weight bbs after a shorter distance. .36s or .4s usually don't do good in stock set ups because of this. But when enough fps is behind them, they'll be worlds apart in speed down range.